Esta Salzman/Milken Archives interview (last two sections include interview with Herbert Latner) (6 June 2005):

 

TAPE NUMBER: B11647

[B11647]12:47:05                                                                        INTERVIEWER

The Civic Opera House  was in 1941, two, three, something like that.

[B11647]12:47:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Two, I believe.

[B11647]12:47:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Forty-two.

[B11647]12:47:12                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Or three, three.

[B11647]12:47:12                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Was that Maurice Schwartz?

[B11647]12:47:19                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Maurice Schwartz.  We were doing the (speaks in Yiddish ) .  And it was amazing.  We only were there for a weekend, totally sold out at the Civic Opera House.  You know, the capacity (unintelligible) .  It was amazing.

[B11647]12:47:40                                                                        INTERVIEWER

That show had incidental music.

[B11647]12:47:43                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes.  And, uh, the conductor was Joseph Merschinzky (sp: Cherniavsky). (sp?) He came along with us.

[B11647]12:47:48                                                                        INTERVIEWER

That's like art theatre
.

[B11647]12:47:53                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Kunst (sp?)

[B11647]12:47:55                                                                        INTERVIEWER

How did you get into the Yiddish theatre?
 

[B11647]12:48:04                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.  There was a company rehearsing at the Liberty Theatre in Brooklyn.  And the company consisted of some of the (speaks in Yiddish) Yiddish.... Frances and her husband, Joseph Schoengold. And my father had five other brothers that were in the theatre in the technical end.  My father was backstage while the rehearsal was going on, and, uh, he was painting a set.  'Cause he, that's what he did.  And the company suddenly stopped rehearsal, and they said now, what are we going to do?  They said, we have to have a child.

[B11647]12:48:46                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

The child is of utmost importance to be in this play.  What are we gonna do ? We need a child.  So my father (unintelligible) (speaks in Yiddish)  translated, I have.  And he brought me to the theatre and I never left.  For seventy-five years after that.  My second experience at the same Liberty Theatre was with Bessie Thomashefsky, Boris Thomashefsky's wife.  And what happened, she loved to have a change of costume, and they didnít know how to work it.  So she sang the song, and then she went offstage.

[B11647]12:49:30                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

While she was offstage changing her costume, they put me into the box, like Lincoln.  Except I was not shot.  And I sang the same chorus that she just sang, which gave her adequate time to change her costume.  That was (speaks in Yiddish ).  I get so many things I can't remember.  I worked with the biggest of them.  Bertha Kalich, who was really the most talented, and her throat was like an orchestra.  She absolutely was fantastic.  I worked with Lobel. I worked with Jenny Valier.  I worked with Menasha Skulnik, Molly Picon and, and endlessly. I'd go on and on and on....

[B11647]12:50:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What was the show at the Liberty?

[B11647]12:50:22                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

At the Liberty?

[B11647]12:50:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11647]12:50:25                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, I donít recall.

[B11647]12:50:25                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) And you were just a little girl, you had no training?

[B11647]12:50:29                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

None.  None whatsoever.  We never had training.  The people in the Yiddish Theatre didnít have training.  It was like on the, on the job training. Because I remember very distinctly, they said to me, can you sing? I didnít have the vaguest idea of whether I could sing or not.  So I sang.  From then on, I was singing.  They said, can you dance?  I'll tell you how I got into dancing, that's a little bit later on.  But the singing, apparently they said I had a very good voice.  I had no knowledge of anything.  They used to take me to, uh, homes of very, very affluent people.  And they would bring a lot of people there.

[B11647]12:51:11                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

And they were doing charity work for orphanages.  And they had me sing sad songs.  Which I did.  And then they accumulated a lot of money, and then I went to the next one.  And that's how I kept going and going and going.

[B11647]12:51:28                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You were born in New York?

[B11647]12:51:32                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Boston.  Boston, Massachusetts.

[B11647]12:51:34                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Your father and mother came from Europe?

[B11647]12:51:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes.

[B11647]12:51:38                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What's the background there?

[B11647]12:51:40                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I donít know much about it.  They came from Pinsk  My father studied in Moscow, uh, being an artist.  And he wound up being the technical end of the theatre.  My father and brothers did a lot of sets for Radio City Music Hall.  And my uncle was very, very talented, and he built a, uh, electric board for the lights in the theatre. It was such a miraculous thing that he did that they came from Broadway to look at that, and they did this likewise, they did the same thing, but ten times enlarged for the Radio City Music Hall. I had a very talented family.

[B11647]12:52:25                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And Yiddish was the language at home?

[B11647]12:52:27                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

At home, that's how I learned Yiddish.  And I could read and write, but I never studied.  My father wrote the alef-bet, the alphabet, and that's how I studied, and I got the part in Yiddish.  The script.  And then I rewrote it in (speaks in Yiddish) , we called it (speaks in Yiddish), in English, so I could read it faster.  Because my reading of the Yiddish was slow.  And I had a fantastic memory.  I memorized overnight, verbatim.

[B11647]12:53:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

How did being a child actress mix with your schoolwork and going to school?

[B11647]12:53:23                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, you had to get permission from the Gary Society(sp?). The mayor had to give you permission, if I had to leave to be at a theatre, they let me go home before.  And my mother always had to accompany me, naturally.  But, uh, it, that was no problem.  It got to a point where I used to just go and, and my mother would sign a paper, and I went.  That was it.  But it had to go through the, uh, government, more or less.

[B11647]12:53:50                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Tell me about some of the shows that you were in as a young adult.

[B11647]12:54:10                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

It got to a point where I became too adult for children's parts, and not enough for an adult part.  So I joined a chorus.  And I joined the chorus, I believe it was the Siegel Theatre
 (sp?) in Williamsburg.  No, the Lyric Theatre in Williamsburg, and I learned how to dance.   I, I followed the other girls, what they were doing, and I did likewise.  I, I was very quick at learning.  And, uh, that's how I got my singing and dancing career started in the chorus.  And as soon as I got older enough, I did my tests for the union, the members of all the union.

[B11647]12:54:58                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

And they passed me, with honors.  And then they put me into a show, I don't remember the name.  I was so naive at the time that it didnít faze me one way or another.  I worked with Michal Michalesko, Anne Thomashefsky, Rebecca Weintraub. These were, these were legends, really.  And I was on with, on stage with these stars, you know.  And that's how it all started.  Then I, then I became, um, mostly musical comedy.  I went into that.  And I worked with Menasha Skolnik for years and years.

[B11647]12:55:38                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

I worked with Molly Picon  for very many years, and we became very close friends.  I worked with Herman Yablokoff,  I worked with Aaron Lebedeff. You name them, as we called them, the (speaks in Yiddish) .  The big shots of the theatre.  And I worked with all of them, and I was very privileged.

[B11647]12:55:58                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Youíre a big shot too, I see your name on all kinds of cast lists.

[B11647]12:56:03                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah.  I donít recall the names of the plays, or anything.

[B11647]12:56:05                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) How many shows were you in in your lifetime?

[B11647]12:56:12                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Oh my goodness, hundreds.

[B11647]12:56:14                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Hundreds .

[B11647]12:56:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Hundreds.  Absolutely.  In fact, I went into Chicago for a season.  They employed me there.  And you know who else was employed?  Uh, an English  actor, but he never made it, because while he was rehearsing there, he received a telegram that Hollywood wanted him.  I can't think of his name right now. (technical)

[B11647]12:56:43                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

(overlapping) Tony Curtis. Tony Curtis, yeah.  He was gorgeous, he really was.  And they got a letter, so he left the company.

[B11647]12:56:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) His name was Schwartz.

[B11647]12:56:51                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Schwartz originally, yes, yes.

[B11647]12:56:51                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) He was originally playing in the Yiddish theatre?

[B11647]12:56:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) He, they, supposed to, but he never made it.

[B11647]12:56:57                                                                        INTERVIEWER

That was in Douglas Park, probably.

[B11647]12:56:59                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Douglas Park Theatre.
 

[B11647]12:57:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Lawndale .

[B11647]12:57:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Lawndale, absolutely.  No, the, Douglas Park. (technical)

[B11647]12:57:11                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

So that's where it, and I stayed there for, um, six months.  I must tell you that I think one of the critics, I think he was in love with me.  'Cause he, he referred to me as Miss Sparkle.  And I got the most fantastic reviews, which I never saved.  I never thought of it in that sense.  And, uh, Jenny Goldstein opened there, with Michal Michalesko.  And every time, we called it (speaks in Yiddish).  They brought a star from New York for the company in Chicago.  I cannot begin to tell you how many plays we did there, because we were a repertory theatre.

[B11647]12:57:52                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

Mid week, we could do a different show for four nights. Different shows.  Weekends the same thing.  And if the play was there (unintelligible) weekend, maybe, maybe we would do it for three weekends.  And I'll never forget when I returned from Chicago.  I got off the plane, I kept all my parts.  This high.  My mother said to me, in Yiddish, she said, if you would have studied like this in college, you would have been a professor. And it's so true.  I used to memorize, I, my, I'm, my memory was incredible. It really was.

[B11647]12:58:30                                                                        INTERVIEWER

This was in the forties?

[B11647]12:58:37                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Um, forties.

[B11647]12:58:37                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11647]12:58:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.  Uh, no.  Yes, youíre right, in the forties.

[B11647]12:58:42                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Douglas Park was finished by the fifties, and the Jews moved out.
 

[B11647]12:58:47                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Oscar Ostroff was the manager.

[B11647]12:58:48                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Where did they put you up?

[B11647]12:59:02                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

What do you mean?

[B11647]12:59:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

In hotels?

[B11647]12:59:03                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No, I lived with a family.

[B11647]12:59:06                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11647]12:59:07                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

They, the, this family happened to be a little bit affluent, so they invested in the theatre.  That's where I stayed.

[B11647]12:59:16                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What would you say were a couple of your favorite parts?

[B11647]12:59:29                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Well, actually, I did, I did comedy.  I loved the part I did with Molly in (speaks in Yiddish)" ....... Honeymoon".  It was very successful.  I had a number there, I did a duet with another actor.  And I was, uh, playing a pregnant woman.  I didnít put a pillow in or anything, but my posture showed the audience that I was pregnant.  And then we sang a song.  I donít recall the song.  And then we did a little bit of a dance.  Very gently, lightly. But I was not that way.  So I started to dance, crazy, crazy, crazy.  Tore the house down.  That was it. It was wonderful.

[B11647]13:00:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (speaks in Yiddish) Honeymoon".

[B11647]13:00:13                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(speaks in Yiddish ).  Yeah.  That was that show.  I did a lot of shows with Molly . I did "Circus Girl" with her.  "Kosher Widow " with her.  Uh, I can't even remember all the shows.

[B11647]13:00:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And with Skulnik.

[B11647]13:00:28                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Skulnik.  For many, many years.  Many years.

[B11647]13:00:32                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Was he funny off stage, too?

[B11647]13:00:36                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No.  Not at all.  Not at all.  Totally different.  Dual  personality.

[B11647]13:00:46                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What other roles did you love?

[B11647]13:00:54                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

You know, I never thought of, I have to admit to something.  I never thought of myself as being an actress or a dancer or a singer, whatever.  And a friend of mine who's an actress said to me, you were never dedicated.  I said, the truth of the matter is, I never was dedicated.  All I knew was I had to get salary and bring it home to Mama .  Thatís all I was interested in.  But nevertheless, if there were four theatres going on Second Avenue, I happened to have four offers.  So I took inventory of myself one night.  I said, I must have something if I get offered from all the theatres, and I had to make a choice for which.

[B11647]13:01:37                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

And I always chose the right one, fortunately.  But the experience with Maurice Schwartz was very interesting.  He always liked tall women, and I'm certainly not tall.  At that time, I was, like, five two and a half.  Since then, I'm shorter, naturally.  And, uh, he was very upset, because he wanted me to do the play, and, but he was very disappointed that I was so short.  So, we were doing a dress rehearsal of (speaks in Yiddish ). And his wife came running up to him and said, "Maurice, Maurice, she looks very tall.  When I wear, well, I'll tell you the truth, I do."

[B11647]13:02:22                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

When I'm on stage with a long gown, I give a very tall, not very tall, but five six, which was a nice height.  So she said, sheís, she looks tall, she looks tall.  So he was a little bit satisfied that I looked tall.  Whatever.  But that was a, quite an experience.  I got very good noticed for that show, too.  They said that I could be a very, very splendid dramatic actress.  I put no emotion into it. (laugh) It didnít faze me one way or another. I was never into it that much.

[B11647]13:03:01                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

Then I'm going to relate this story to you that I did a silent movie.  And they called the Hebrew Actor's Union to get all the children that they could get.  The car was crowded, it was like a Keystone comedy.  We were about ten children in one car.  And it so, I, by that time, I was an actress, and my mother bought me, 'cause to be an actress, I have to wear special clothes, a white rabbit coat.  And it so happens that I had to sit on Seymour's lap.  And my coat shed.  He wanted to kill me, 'cause he had the white fur all over his navy blue suit.

[B11647]13:03:41                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

Anyway, I was selected to do the movie.  A silent movie, donít remember the name of it.  We tried to look it up, my friend Carrie tried to look it up for me.

[B11647]13:03:51                                                                        INTERVIEWER

"Salome of the Tenements" .

[B11647]13:03:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Salome of the (word?) , yeah.  But it's not, it doesnít exist.

[B11647]13:03:58                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What do you mean, it doesnít exist?  It's lost?

[B11647]13:04:00                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

It, it was, yes.  It's so old, and they, the, I think they, they lost all the movies that they did there.  In that, from that time on.  It's a long time ago.  It's gotta be eighty-some-odd years.

[B11647]13:04:19                                                                        INTERVIEWER

These are silent movies with, um.

[B11647]13:04:20                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I was at the Lasky Studio. (technical)

[B11647]13:04:25                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

(overlapping) English, but silent.  With, uh, English subtitles. Jetta Goudal was the star, if you ever heard of her.  And the leading man, there were two brothers, I donít remember which one, Conway or Godfrey Tearle.  Those were the two stars.  So, the director, after, Friday, I ate in the commissary.  My mother, of course, at a box lunch.  Oh, incidentally, my mother was an extra in that, she got paid, too. 'Cause they needed people around pushcarts.  So my mother was purchasing tomatoes, or whatever.  And, uh, the director came to us after the day's work and he said, it's Friday.

[B11647]13:05:10                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

I know we generally donít work on Saturday , but you have to work on Saturday. So my mother, in her broken English, said to him, she can't do it.  He said, what do you mean, she can't do it?  Well, she said, she has another commitment.  What do you mean?  She has a matinee to do tomorrow afternoon with Malvina Lobel. A fabulous actress.  And I had a contract.  You donít break contracts.  He said to me, what are you trying to tell me, I have to cancel everything here because she has a matinee?  My mother said, a contract's a contract.  A commitment's a commitment.

[B11647]13:05:48                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

He said, we'll manage somehow.  I went to work Saturday.  He gave me police escort up to the Lenox Theatre. Those are little things that remain with me, you know.  Theyíre indelibly in my mind.

[B11647]13:06:04                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) So you were in big demand.

[B11647]13:06:08                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I wanna tell you, I wish I made that much money now, that I did then.  And for the movie, my family bought a seven passenger Studebaker sedan. For the money that I earned in the movie.  Everything is relative, you know.

[B11647]13:06:24                                                                        INTERVIEWER

In some shows, you did more singing?

[B11647]13:06:34                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Comedy, singing, and dancing.  Comedy, singing, and dancing.

[B11647]13:06:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Do you remember any of the songs that you particularly loved?

[B11647]13:06:44                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(speaks in Yiddish) .  It was a song that Olshanetsky wrote.  We had a lot of wonderful music.  In fact, uh, Danny Kaye's agent said to my late husband, if you can try, we used to do an act in the Catskill Mountains the Borscht Belt.  So he came to see us, 'cause Danny Kaye was working in another place in the Catskill Mountains.  And he said to my husband, if you can translate these songs that you do here, I will sign you to a contract.  Can't translate those things.  Where I would sing, in one song, I was what they call a (speaks in Yiddish) .

[B11647]13:07:25                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

Deaf and dumb.  So you did it with motions.  You got to the, the storyline.  It was very funny.  And then, and in another he did, he was, um, what they called a (speaks in Yiddish ).  One that stutters.  Um, so you couldnít translate those, it loses itself.

[B11647]13:07:44                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah, of course.

[B11647]13:07:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah, so unfortunately, we couldnít do it. Otherwise, we, we would still be working.  (laugh) But we were very flattered that he made us that offer.

[B11647]13:07:55                                                                        INTERVIEWER

So you were in the theatre during the whole arc of its days.

[B11647]13:08:02                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yes, yeah.

[B11647]13:08:02                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And so to you...

[B11647]13:08:03                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I worked with Jenny Goldstein in the People's Theatre.  And [I] loved that job.  Because in between the scenes that I had with her, I played a little boy, newspaper boy, her brother.  Uh, there was a stable, with horses, in back of the theatre. So I used to play, play with the horses in between scenes.  I loved to go there.  I said, when am I going back to the stable?  Not to the theatre.  When are we going to the stable? (laugh) Ah, that's it.

[B11647]13:08:31                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Was your husband involved in the theatre?

[B11647]13:08:33                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes, he was.  We were, we were a team for a while.  Yeah.

[B11647]13:08:38                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And his name was?

[B11647]13:08:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Lubritsky. And he had two sisters.

[B11647]13:08:42                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Fanny Lubritsky?

[B11647]13:08:43                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Fanny Lubritsky and Golda, that were in the theatres.  Yes.  And he was Dave Lubritsky.

[B11647]13:08:52                                                                        INTERVIEWER

So you were on stage together...

[B11647]13:08:54                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) For many years.

[B11647]13:08:55                                                                        INTERVIEWER

For shows, and in?

[B11647]13:08:56                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah, many, many shows, yeah.  It was interesting.  We had a lot of fun, we had a lot of heartache.  We had, it was interesting.  As long as I could get the money to Mama.

[B11647]13:09:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You say you didnít put much into it, but obviously, this was a way of life.

[B11647]13:09:26                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yes, absolutely.  I had no other profession.  I didnít know what to do.  I had very little, uh, education.  In those years, going to high school or college, that was a luxury item.  Couldnít afford that.  Yeah.

[B11647]13:09:43                                                                        INTERVIEWER

But you found a whole life in the Yiddish Theatre.
 

[B11647]13:09:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yes, I did.

[B11647]13:09:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Was it that way for most people in the theatre?

[B11647]13:09:50                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I have no idea.  I can't speak for the, for others.  Some of them were very, we had some very, very talented people in the Yiddish theatre. Very talented.  Extremely so.  And some (unintelligible) were not that great, but they got along.  And so be it.

[B11647]13:10:07                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You could be in a bunch of shows in one year.

[B11647]13:10:12                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Not on Second Avenue.  On Second Avenue, we used to [do] shtick during the week; we also had some repertory. But weekends, if the show was a hit, we could do twenty-six weeks of a show for weekends.  And then when that was finished, we went to the Borscht Belt to work.  I never remember not working.  Never remember not working.

[B11647]13:10:35                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What about vaudeville?

[B11647]13:10:36                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Did Vaudeville too.  Clinton Theatre.  That's where we, all the vaudeville was, mm hmm.

[B11647]13:10:43                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Wasn't there an outdoor roof garden or something?

[B11647]13:10:46                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, that's the National Roof Garden.  We were doing vaudeville at the National Theatre. Zero Mostel  was doing "Ulysses"  at the Roof Garden at the same time.

[B11647]13:10:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

In Yiddish?

[B11647]13:10:57                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, he did English.

[B11647]13:10:58                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I meant in Yiddish theatre, skits?

[B11647]13:11:04                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yiddish, vaudeville, yes, of course.  Richard Tucker started with us.  And, uh, Robert Merrill  started with us, in the Yiddish vaudeville , yeah.

[B11647]13:11:14                                                                        INTERVIEWER

How did you see the theatre change?

[B11647]13:11:29                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Well, because of the immigration, that stopped, you know, that's what really did it, did us in.  Um, there's only one Yiddish Theatre now.  It's, uh, the Folksbiene, as you well know.  Um, and they do it now with English subtitles.  But you know, I spoke to Lily (word? Lux?) today, and I know that Michael Burstin came in from California.  He received a Drama Desk Award for doing it on Second Avenue.

[B11647]13:12:04                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

He was wonderful in it, I went to see it, at the Yiddish Folksbiene.

[B11647]13:12:09                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Now?

[B11647]13:12:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

A couple weeks ago, yeah.

[B11647]13:12:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Mm hmm.

[B11647]13:12:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

And, uh, and then there's Brucie Adler, that came from not the Adler family, not Jacob.  His father's name was Julius Adler , and his mother's name was Henrietta Jacobson.  She was the sister of Irving Jacobson, who did the "Man Of La Mancha" originally with Richard Kiley.  You, you remember Irving Jacobson?

[B11647]13:12:37                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Wasn't he involved in Second Avenue before that?

[B11647]13:12:39                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Irving?  Sure, he was my boss for many years, too.

[B11647]13:12:44                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11647]13:12:46                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes, he was a producer.

[B11647]13:12:47                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You probably did a lot of musicals by Olshanetsky.

[B11647]13:13:06                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh yes.

[B11647]13:13:06                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Was he?

[B11647]13:13:07                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

And Rumshinsky.

[B11647]13:13:09                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) And Rumshinsky.

[B11647]13:13:10                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

And Rumshinsky, Olshanetsky.

[B11647]13:13:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11647]13:13:12                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) It was a Jack  Kreitzberg . Jack.

[B11647]13:13:16                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yes, there was, I know the name.

[B11647]13:13:20                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Uh, and lyrics by Isadore Lillian.

[B11647]13:13:22                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Lillian.

[B11647]13:13:23                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Fabulous people, the best.  The best in the business.

[B11647]13:13:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Herman Wohl , do you remember him?

[B11647]13:13:29                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Vaguely, but I know the name.

[B11647]13:13:31                                                                        INTERVIEWER

He wrote (speaks in Yiddish) . That's older.

[B11647]13:13:33                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah, (speaks in Yiddish), right.

[B11647]13:13:34                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Youíre too young for that.

[B11647]13:13:35                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right.  Well, there is something before my time, (interviewer laughs) you know. (laugh)  Not too much, but there is.

[B11647]13:13:39                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Ellstein, of course.

[B11647]13:13:44                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, I know him very well.  'Cause he did a lot of things for Molly, yeah.

[B11647]13:13:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) You must have been in a lot of Ellstein shows.

[B11647]13:13:53                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I was, yeah.

[B11647]13:13:54                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Singing songs.

[B11647]13:13:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes, I was.

[B11647]13:13:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

How much rehearsal did you have before big shows?

[B11647]13:14:03                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Two, two and a half weeks, three weeks, tops.  That was it.

[B11647]13:14:07                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Tops.

[B11647]13:14:07                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Tops. Yeah.

[B11647]13:14:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Which is not a lot for a show.

[B11647]13:14:12                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Not a lot, (interviewer laughs) but we, we did it.  We had that training.  We could do it.

[B11647]13:14:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And the dialogue came from handwritten scripts?

[B11647]13:14:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, no, we used the same dialogue in the Yiddish theatre.  It was very peculiar, because when I used to be on stage, let's say my father was working backstage, technically.  And I, I used the Yiddish that they used in the theatre.  And then I came off, and I wrote, spoke Yiddish to my father, but with a (speaks in Yiddish) .  It was so peculiar, how automatically, I went from that to this.  It was so, the, the actors used to think it was, uh, the funniest thing they ever heard.

[B11647]13:14:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You mean you went from...

[B11647]13:14:56                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) From the regular Yiddish that they used in the theatre
.

[B11647]13:14:59                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Which is like a (speaks in Yiddish).

[B11647]13:15:02                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Right.  And my, and my parents were (speaks in Yiddish) .  So, that's what I spoke.

[B11647]13:15:07                                                                        INTERVIEWER

So you didnít say (speaks in Yiddish) .

[B11647]13:15:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right.  Right, exactly.  Exactly.

[B11647]13:15:16                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And you just switched automatically.

[B11647]13:15:17                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Automatically, without giving it a thought.

[B11647]13:15:21                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(unintelligible)

[B11647]13:15:22                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Gut.

[B11647]13:15:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

From git became gut.  Which is the correct way.

[B11647]13:15:26                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Exactly, exactly.

[B11647]13:15:27                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah, I mean...

[B11647]13:15:28                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) But if you had to do a part with a Galitzianer accent, you did it.  (unintelligible)

[B11647]13:15:32                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) But everybody spoke that way in the theatre, didnít they?

[B11647]13:15:34                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) We, we could do everything. The Yiddish, the performers were very versatile. Versatile . Very.  And a lot of them were extremely talented.

[B11647]13:15:43                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did you memorize your scripts quickly?

[B11647]13:15:46                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Overnight.  Overnight.

[B11647]13:15:48                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And then what, you threw it away?

[B11647]13:15:50                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

That's it.  Now I donít recall any of them.  And then, uh, in latter years, uh, I was get, becoming disillusioned with the theatre.  It wasn't, it wasnít to my liking.  So I did a one woman show, written by Murray Rumshinsky.  Not a one.  Yeah.  Murray wrote six or eight numbers for me, and I did a one woman show.  I did for an hour, an hour and a half, on stage.

[B11647]13:16:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

In New York?

[B11647]13:16:23                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Mostly in the Borscht Belt, and then I.....

[end of tape: [B11647]13:16:26]


 

TAPE NUMBER: B11648

[B11648]13:16:51                                                                        INTERVIEWER

The show by Murray Rumshinsky  (sp?) said you went to California ...

[B11648]13:16:53                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No, he, he wrote special material for me. Songs. And he was very funny. Murray was a very funny fellow. And, uh,  I did very well with the one woman show. I made a living for myself. I raised my son by myself. It was great.

[B11648]13:17:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Was this show done in Los Angeles  and New York?

[B11648]13:17:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I did, I, no. The show, the show that he wrote for me, I started, I wanted to sort of break it in. I did it in the Borscht Belt, which is a wonderful place. And I did that. Then I worked in a nightclub in Philadelphia.

[B11648]13:17:30                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Mm hm.

[B11648]13:17:31                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I went in there for a weekend and stayed seven.  Um, and, and Montreal, too. I did a lot of that. Yeah.

[B11648]13:17:40                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Was it in Los Angeles?

[B11648]13:17:43                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Los Angeles, we did plays when we came, like we did for (sounds like) lunch at the honeymoon, in, in Los Angeles.

[B11648]13:17:48                                                                        INTERVIEWER

The whole production?

[B11648]13:17:50                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

The whole thing.

[B11648]13:17:52                                                                        INTERVIEWER

But with Murray...

[B11648]13:17:54                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

With Murray, just a one woman show. Just (unintelligible) ...

[B11648]13:17:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) This was before he moved out there?

[B11648]13:17:58                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, yes. Way before, yeah.

[B11648]13:17:59                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11648]13:18:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I would say that was in, already in the '60s, '70s. Yeah.

[B11648]13:18:05                                                                        INTERVIEWER

He did it in a theatre?

[B11648]13:18:08                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I did it in, in a theatre, in, uh, in a social hall...

[B11648]13:18:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11648]13:18:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

...wherever.
 

[B11648]13:18:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did he play in it?
 

[B11648]13:18:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No.

[B11648]13:18:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

He was a very good pianist.

[B11648]13:18:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

He was fabulous.

[B11648]13:18:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Wonderful piano player.

[B11648]13:18:17                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) He used to be our pianist when (word?) did the shows.

[B11648]13:18:20                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11648]13:18:20                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

He worked with his father. You (word?) the story.

[B11648]13:18:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Everybody knows the famous story.

[B11648]13:18:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) We're not gonna tell that story.

[B11648]13:18:24                                                                        INTERVIEWER

... Did you ever hear of a show that he wrote called Chicks And Boychicks?

[B11648]13:18:44                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

That was his, wasnít...

[B11648]13:18:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah, yeah.

[B11648]13:18:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

...it? Yeah, Murrays. I heard of, but I never...

[B11648]13:18:47                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) "Go Fight City Hall"?

[B11648]13:18:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, I never, heard that.

[B11648]13:18:55                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Did you do shows by his father?

[B11648]13:19:03                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, of course.

[B11648]13:19:03                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Sure.

[B11648]13:19:04                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

A lot of them. Of course, Rummy wrote for Molly. And I did a lot of shows with him. And I can't remember the titles of them. I did a lot with her.

[B11648]13:19:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:19:21                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I was in that with her.

[B11648]13:19:22                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:19:28                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

That I donít know.

[B11648]13:19:29                                                                        INTERVIEWER

The (speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:19:33                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) The (speaks in yiddish) I think had Paul Muni's wife was in that.

[B11648]13:19:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Louis Gilrad (sp?) wrote it.

[B11648]13:19:41                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

He wrote the lyrics, I think.

[B11648]13:19:42                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:19:47                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

That I did with her.

[B11648]13:19:48                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish) With Jacob [Kalich].

[B11648]13:19:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I worked with him for years, too. For years. He headed the Parkway Theatre.
 

[B11648]13:19:59                                                                        INTERVIEWER

His wife...

[B11648]13:20:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Betty Jacobs, Malvina Lobel's sister.

[B11648]13:20:06                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Really?

[B11648]13:20:07                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Rosie Greenfield's sister.

[B11648]13:20:09                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Again...

[B11648]13:20:10                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:20:10                                                                        INTERVIEWER

...this is one big family.

[B11648]13:20:15                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Exactly. And then some.

[B11648]13:20:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It was a world.

[B11648]13:20:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

It was. It certainly was. A little world of our own. Yeah. She had, uh, um, I'm trying to, no, uh, Nathan Goldberg  was Jacobs' partner at the Parkway Theatre. And he has, his wife was an actress, Rosie Goldberg. And her sister was Hannah Hollander. She was also a Yiddish actress.

[B11648]13:20:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Jacob has a duet with his wife, Betty.

[B11648]13:20:54                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Betty Jacobs, of course.

[B11648]13:20:55                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What's it called?

[B11648]13:20:58                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yenta (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11648]13:21:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

There was Uptown, Downtown, (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11648]13:21:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

A couple of those things are before my time.

[B11648]13:21:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

The (speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:21:22                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I remember the titles, but I donít...

[B11648]13:21:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (speaks in Yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:21:27                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah, the big secret that was...

[B11648]13:21:28                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11648]13:21:28                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

...Jennie Goldstein, wasnít it?

[B11648]13:21:29                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yes.

[B11648]13:21:33                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

How do you like that? (interviewer laughs)

[B11648]13:21:35                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I have to look it up.

[B11648]13:21:36                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

You're, you're really digging it out of the trunk. (interviewer laughs)  Way, way at the bottom of the trunk.

[B11648]13:21:39                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) It's with Jennie Goldstein.

[B11648]13:21:41                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Jennie Goldstein, right.

[B11648]13:21:42                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:21:48                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No. (word?) ...

[B11648]13:21:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Thatís...

[B11648]13:21:49                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... I know the name, but never...

[B11648]13:21:51                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Were you in (speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:22:00                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes, I was.

[B11648]13:22:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) The show.

[B11648]13:22:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Of course. I worked for (sounds like) Yeherbin Yabica (Herman Yablokoff?). That was the show, (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11648]13:22:07                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And he sang...

[B11648]13:22:09                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

And then he brought Leo Fuchs, and I worked with him. Extremely talented young man.

[B11648]13:22:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Shmendrik's (word?) ?

[B11648]13:22:32                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Something rings a bell, a bell about it, but I can't recall.

[B11648]13:22:34                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Me too.

[B11648]13:22:35                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I can't recall what.

[B11648]13:22:37                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:22:51                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11648]13:22:52                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Um...

[B11648]13:22:52                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... that was with (unintelligible) , no?

[B11648]13:22:54                                                                        INTERVIEWER

She sang the gypsy woman.

[B11648]13:23:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

She sang...

[B11648]13:23:01                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:23:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish)  What a beautiful song.

[B11648]13:23:05                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11648]13:23:05                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

That was all Shanesky  (Olshanetsky?) (sp?) .

[B11648]13:23:07                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11648]13:23:09                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Beautiful.

[B11648]13:23:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

She had him rewrite the scene to make more sense.

[B11648]13:23:23                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Well, because she, she wasnít a singer.

[B11648]13:23:25                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It was her first one.

[B11648]13:23:27                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Exactly, exactly.  Exactly.

[B11648]13:23:30                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:23:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes, I was in that.

[B11648]13:23:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You were in that?

[B11648]13:23:46                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.

[B11648]13:23:46                                                                        INTERVIEWER

That was the famous...

[B11648]13:23:48                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I'm trying to remember what it was about. I know the title, and I know I was...

[B11648]13:23:52                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) They were all about nothing...

[B11648]13:23:56                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Really. They're entertaining.

[B11648]13:23:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

... They're all love stories, and mysteries...

[B11648]13:24:00                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) And drama.

[B11648]13:24:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

... and lost relatives...

[B11648]13:24:05                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

And illegitimate children.

[B11648]13:24:06                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Under the (word?) .

[B11648]13:24:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Under the (word?) . Yeah.

[B11648]13:24:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in Yiddish)

[B11648]13:24:15                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in Yiddish)

[B11648]13:24:16                                                                        INTERVIEWER

That's by (unintelligible) .

[B11648]13:24:20                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I was in that too. I told you. That was in the Parkway Theatre.
 

[B11648]13:24:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Thatís right.

[B11648]13:24:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Originally.

[B11648]13:24:24                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I donít remember the story.

[B11648]13:24:31                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) It was a love story. And, I think... (technical)

[B11648]13:25:08                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11648]13:25:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) That was with Goldenburg, I think. Samuel (interviewer laughs) Goldenburg.

[B11648]13:25:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You're right.

[B11648]13:25:18                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Some time, yeah. right. That was at the National Theatre.
 

[B11648]13:25:22                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping)  It says Goldberg, but it's Goldenburg?

[B11648]13:25:23                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Goldenburg.

[B11648]13:25:24                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Thatís a mistake.

[B11648]13:25:25                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Samuel.

[B11648]13:25:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) And Bella Meisel (sp?) was there...

[B11648]13:25:27                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Bella Meisel , you know, his (unintelligible) first wife.

[B11648]13:25:30                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) With the famous song.

[B11648]13:25:35                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (singing) (speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:25:37                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Thatís correct.

[B11648]13:25:37                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... mazeltov, mazeltov. Oh my goodness.

[B11648]13:25:42                                                                        INTERVIEWER

See?

[B11648]13:25:43                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I'm on a roll. (laugh)

[B11648]13:25:44                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:25:48                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

A happy family.

[B11648]13:25:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11648]13:25:50                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I, that rings a bell, but I'm not sure.

[B11648]13:25:53                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It's not such a...

[B11648]13:25:53                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I did so many that I really can't recall.

[B11648]13:25:54                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) It's got Willie Siegel .

[B11648]13:26:00                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Willie Siegel's play, yeah. And (word?) music.

[B11648]13:26:03                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) With Isaac Feld.  (sp?) ...

[B11648]13:26:07                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I never worked with Isaac.

[B11648]13:26:09                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yetta Zwerling (sp?) .

[B11648]13:26:10                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I worked with her a lot.

[B11648]13:26:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What was she like?

[B11648]13:26:13                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

She was, Phyllis Diller could take lessons from her. (interviewer laughs) Thatís how she was.

[B11648]13:26:20                                                                        INTERVIEWER

The song there was...

[B11648]13:26:21                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) She was amazing.

[B11648]13:26:24                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish) Is a good show.

[B11648]13:26:27                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11648]13:26:29                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11648]13:26:56                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

That song was written by Secunda (sp?) .

[B11648]13:26:58                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yes.

[B11648]13:26:59                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

And my late sister was the (speaks in yiddish) . She had to walk on stage with a little babushka. My sister was so graceful. She was in the chorus. But Secunda  selected her as the (speaks in yiddish) .  And she walked on stage, and thatís when they sang the song. That she was the (speaks in yiddish) . She had nothing to do with the play. She, he just selected her. (interviewer laughs) And I always said to myÖ

[B11648]13:27:27                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I can't remember how the song goes.

[B11648]13:27:29                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (sounds like) My (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11648]13:27:31                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Thatís correct.

[B11648]13:27:32                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(sounds like) (speaks in yiddish) My (speaks in yiddish) . I can't recall. (interviewer laughs) But, thatís the song.

[B11648]13:27:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

We just published the CD.

[B11648]13:27:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) It's a beautiful song.

[B11648]13:27:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Dora Weissman  was in that.

[B11648]13:28:19                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Dora Weissman.

[B11648]13:28:20                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You mentioned Joseph Shoengold, who was married to...

[B11648]13:28:32                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) One of the (sounds like) Adler girls.

[B11648]13:28:33                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11648]13:28:34                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Frances.

[B11648]13:28:35                                                                        INTERVIEWER

He was in a show in Philadelphia called (speaks in yiddish) . I donít know if it played in New York or not.

[B11648]13:28:41                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No.

[B11648]13:28:42                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Secunda was living in Philadelphia  then.

[B11648]13:28:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No, no.

[B11648]13:28:46                                                                        INTERVIEWER

That show opened on Rosh Hashanah.

[B11648]13:28:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah. Is that so?

[B11648]13:28:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) They announced in the paper that it would start an hour later for people who like to go to (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11648]13:29:02                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Well, we used to open new shows and new seasons right after Yom Kippur.

[B11648]13:29:07                                                                        INTERVIEWER

But this...

[B11648]13:29:08                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Right, an hour after. We started, yeah.

[B11648]13:29:08                                                                        INTERVIEWER

... actually opened on Rosh Hashanah.

[B11648]13:29:12                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

That's surprising.

[B11648]13:29:12                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) It said in the paper that it would start an hour later than usual.

[B11648]13:29:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Thatís, is that amazing.

[B11648]13:29:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:29:22                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(speaks in yiddish) Of course.

[B11648]13:29:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:29:31                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) Something. I, yeah.

[B11648]13:29:32                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Bella was in that with Skulnik .

[B11648]13:29:35                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.

[B11648]13:29:35                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:29:44                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) I did that.

[B11648]13:29:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did you?

[B11648]13:29:46                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

That was with, uh, Jennie Goldstein.

[B11648]13:29:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yes.

[B11648]13:29:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Okay.

[B11648]13:29:55                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish) Has that weird song (speaks in yiddish) in it.

[B11648]13:30:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Silk  and satin. Right.

[B11648]13:30:03                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11648]13:30:04                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:30:04                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) They mistranslated in the published version as velvet and satin.

[B11648]13:30:09                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) I think is silk and satin.

[B11648]13:30:10                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I think they did it deliberately because it sounded better.

[B11648]13:30:13                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Alright, whatever. Okay.

[B11648]13:30:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) You were in the show?

[B11648]13:30:30                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I think so.

[B11648]13:30:32                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It was a Herman Wohl song.

[B11648]13:30:37                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I think I was in that show. I was still a child.

[B11648]13:30:41                                                                        INTERVIEWER

That would have been...

[B11648]13:30:42                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yes.

[B11648]13:30:42                                                                        INTERVIEWER

...a long time ago. They advertised for people to bring their daughters so they'd know what happens to a girl thatís gone bad.

[B11648]13:30:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I'll tell you what, I, I remember vividly, she had a scene with William Epstein. And...

[B11648]13:31:01                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11648]13:31:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... she wanted to hit him with a bottle. And she struck this with a big, big thing on Yiddish theatre
. She struck the mirror. And every performance they had to replace the mirror. And the audience, oh, they gasped. We never had such a thing happen. That was that show.

[B11648]13:31:20                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah, because...

[B11648]13:31:20                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:31:20                                                                        INTERVIEWER

... she comes under the spell of a no goodster.

[B11648]13:31:25                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Exactly. (interviewer laughs) Exactly.

[B11648]13:31:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Then he leaves her.

[B11648]13:31:29                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Exactly.

[B11648]13:31:30                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) But he gets her into drugs.

[B11648]13:31:31                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right.

[B11648]13:31:32                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And they bring her to a hospital in the middle of the night.

[B11648]13:31:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) If, if I remember correctly, yeah.

[B11648]13:31:39                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) And she sings donít sell yourself for satin and silk.

[B11648]13:31:43                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right.

[B11648]13:31:44                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(unintelligible)

[B11648]13:31:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right.

[B11648]13:31:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You were in that show?

[B11648]13:31:48                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I remember, I remember it vividly, because of the mirror scene.

[B11648]13:31:50                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11648]13:31:51                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I was a child. I was very impressed.

[B11648]13:31:52                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I donít think they revived it, so you must have been in it.

[B11648]13:31:56                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No,  was in it.

[B11648]13:31:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Although they said to bring your daughters so it would be a lesson.

[B11648]13:32:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(interviewer laughs) I was in it.

[B11648]13:32:02                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11648]13:32:03                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes.

[B11648]13:32:03                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It was a very eerie song.

[B11648]13:32:10                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) It was a nice song, I remember. But I can't recall...

[B11648]13:32:12                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) It was a little waltz kind of.

[B11648]13:32:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah. More like (word?) ...

[B11648]13:32:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

They all do.

[B11648]13:32:15                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) His, his type.

[B11648]13:32:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It goes something like this.

[B11648]13:32:29                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

The verse.

[B11648]13:32:29                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I can't remember the words.

[B11648]13:32:40                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Very interesting. (laugh)

[B11648]13:32:44                                                                        INTERVIEWER

There were a lot of gypsies on stage for (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11648]13:32:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.

[B11648]13:32:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Thatís what the review says.

[B11648]13:32:57                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Thatís what the review said.

[B11648]13:32:58                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11648]13:32:59                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

They mustíve had the entire stage mirrored. (interviewer laughs) No way.

[B11648]13:33:03                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11648]13:33:04                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) They used to have a lot of chorus. They had fourteen, sixteen girls.

[B11648]13:33:07                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I donít mean literally hundreds.

[B11648]13:33:09                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah. And, and male chorus. The male, men, they...

[B11648]13:33:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11648]13:33:13                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

...had the fantastic voices. The male chorus men.

[B11648]13:33:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah, they would.

[B11648]13:33:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Fantastic.

[B11648]13:33:19                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:33:23                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

What girls do, yeah.

[B11648]13:33:24                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) That was with Molly  and Muni  (sp?) .

[B11648]13:33:29                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(unintelligible)

[B11648]13:33:29                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Muni Serebrov"  (sp?) .

[B11648]13:33:33                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Is that the one that became Paul Muni?

[B11648]13:33:36                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No.

[B11648]13:33:37                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I almost made that mistake.

[B11648]13:33:40                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I got it. (technical)

[B11648]13:33:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:34:00                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Don" ít recall.

[B11648]13:34:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) You said you worked with Lebedeff  (sp?) .

[B11648]13:34:08                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Not too much. Not as much as with Molly or Menasha (sp?).  Not...

[B11648]13:34:12                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) They'd record songs like "Shouldnít Happen To A Dog.".

[B11648]13:34:27                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

That was just a number that he did in a play.

[B11648]13:34:28                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Just a number.

[B11648]13:34:29                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Had nothing to do with anything.

[B11648]13:34:29                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Not from a play.

[B11648]13:34:31                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.

[B11648]13:34:31                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:34:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:34:40                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You did so many (sounds like) Skulnik....

[B11648]13:34:44                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

A lot, yeah. He was very talented, Ben. I always remember, I was a little girl, (cough) excuse me, and, uh, there was a song, I think Isidore Lillian wrote it. Didnít remember the melody, but I was so impressed with what he said in the lyrics. And I remembered that line. It's from way, way back when. He said, he finally married this woman. He's been asking her to marry him for the longest time. She kept refusing, refusing. She finally agreed, and she married him.

[B11648]13:35:20                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

And this was a song about, I got married, (speaks in yiddish) , what do I see now, (speaks in yiddish) . That impressed me so. Never forgot those lines. Half of her was in the bed, and half of her was on the dresser. (interviewer laughs) The teeth were in the dresser (interviewer laughs) , an eye was in (laugh) , I thought it was so funny.

[B11648]13:35:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I may have that song on an old 78...

[B11648]13:35:49                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Really? Could be, could be.

[B11648]13:35:48                                                                        INTERVIEWER

...record.

[B11648]13:35:52                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (interviewer laughs) I thought it was so funny. I always remembered that. Stuck in, indelibly in my mind.

[B11648]13:35:55                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) That's not the one (speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:35:57                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No. I donít think so.

[B11648]13:35:58                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish)

[B11648]13:36:02                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No.

[B11648]13:36:02                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did you see him on Broadway?

[B11648]13:36:08                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes, of course I saw him on Broadway .

[B11648]13:36:09                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) He did a play with no music called "Uncle Willie" .

[B11648]13:36:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, not, that wasnít the first one he did on Broadway.

[B11648]13:36:16                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I saw that.

[B11648]13:36:19                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, I see.

[B11648]13:36:19                                                                        INTERVIEWER

"Uncle Willie"  was...

[B11648]13:36:20                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Were you impressed?

[B11648]13:36:21                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It was fantastic.

[B11648]13:36:25                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah. He had the same kind of timing, (cough) excuse me, that the fellow on Broadway now, doing the one man show, "700 Sundays"?

[B11648]13:36:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Billy Crystal.

[B11648]13:36:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah. The timing. I, I saw him recently, this young man. I never met a comic that had such timing. Such an artist. And some of the material that he, it's all about his life. Some of it didnít even make sense, but funny. The timing, his timing. And Menasha had that timing.

[B11648]13:36:59                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11648]13:37:00                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Was incredible.

[B11648]13:37:02                                                                        INTERVIEWER

The last one was (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11648]13:37:09                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I think Molly  was supposed to be in that one. Both of them were supposed to be in one play.

[B11648]13:37:12                                                                        INTERVIEWER

She wasnít in it.

[B11648]13:37:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

She left.

[B11648]13:37:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11648]13:37:15                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

She did, never went...

[B11648]13:37:16                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11648]13:37:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... into it.

[B11648]13:37:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11648]13:37:18                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

They started in Philadelphia.

[B11648]13:37:20                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Which did you like better, singing or acting?

[B11648]13:37:30                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I didnít care about singing. I thought my, my best, my, to my way of thinking, my dancing was the best of whatever talent I possessed. Dancing, and then I love drama. I love drama. I worked with Bertha when I was a little girl. And, um, unfortunately she went blind towards the very end of her life. But they gave her a benefit performance at the Parkway Theatre. And she was doing (speaks in yiddish) . And they said, who do you want, Madame Kalich?

[B11648]13:38:12                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

She said, bring me the Saltzman girl. I was a grown up already, but I played (speaks in yiddish) with her. The last performance she ever did. Bertha. You didnít know her, of course.

[B11648]13:38:25                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) No.

[B11648]13:38:25                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Way before your time.

[B11648]13:38:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) Was already a serious play.

[B11648]13:38:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, yes, it was.

[B11648]13:38:39                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I'm trying to...

[B11648]13:38:39                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) She only did serious plays.

[B11648]13:38:40                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) She didnít do musicals.

[B11648]13:38:42                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No. No. But...

[B11648]13:38:44                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (word?)

[B11648]13:38:44                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... she had an instrument in her throat. What a voice.

[B11648]13:38:47                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Who were the (speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:38:49                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I donít remember. (technical)

[B11648]13:39:05                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

I donít recall.

[B11648]13:39:06                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It wasnít the Goldfaden one.

[B11648]13:39:08                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No.

[B11648]13:39:08                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I know the one you mean.

[B11648]13:39:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, it was a drama.

[B11648]13:39:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Powerful drama.

[B11648]13:39:17                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.

[B11648]13:39:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And those things...

[B11648]13:39:20                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) There was a musical of (speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11648]13:39:22                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It's an operetta.

[B11648]13:39:23                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

An operetta, I see. Okay.

[B11648]13:39:25                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did you study dancing?

[B11648]13:39:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, no.

[B11648]13:39:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And work at the bar...

[B11648]13:39:46                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, no, no, no. I was so fast on my feet, and I could learn very, I learn very quickly.

[B11648]13:39:54                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did they employ a choreographer?

[B11648]13:39:59                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Choreographer? Yeah. My late husband used to do that. He used to teach the, uh, choreography for the chorus...

[B11648]13:40:08                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Uh huh.

[B11648]13:40:08                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

In the theatre
.

[B11648]13:40:10                                                                        INTERVIEWER

On an elaborate show, were the dancers the same people as the chorus?

[B11648]13:40:27                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.

[B11648]13:40:29                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What used to be called chorus girls.

[B11648]13:40:30                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Chorus girls. Yes. They used to sing and dance.

[B11648]13:40:33                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And the men too?

[B11648]13:40:35                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

The men only sang.

[B11648]13:40:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

The dancers were all women.

[B11648]13:40:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.

[B11648]13:40:38                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Uh huh.

[B11648]13:40:39                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

They were comparatively much older than the chorus girls, the...

[B11648]13:40:44                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11648]13:40:44                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... men. But their voices were fantastic. Terrific voices.

[B11648]13:40:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) They were all conducting in shul.

[B11648]13:41:03                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Oh, exactly.

[B11648]13:41:04                                                                        INTERVIEWER

So they knew how to...

[B11648]13:41:05                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah. Secunda had that big one on Eastern Parkway, not far from the...

[B11648]13:41:09                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yes.

[B11648]13:41:10                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(unintelligible)

[B11648]13:41:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

With Tucker.

[B11648]13:41:13                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right. Right.

[B11648]13:41:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Eastern Parkway?

[B11648]13:41:20                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Eastern Parkway.

[B11648]13:41:20                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping)  And Olshanetsky was...

[B11648]13:41:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Oh, Olshanetsky  wound up going to the Paramount Theatre. They took him away from the Yiddish theatre.
.

[B11648]13:41:31                                                                        INTERVIEWER

To the Paramount?

[B11648]13:41:31                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Absolutely.

[B11648]13:41:33                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Was that vaudeville?

[B11648]13:41:35                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah. That was almost the time of when Sinatra started. They thought he was so talented. They took him, he, he was conducting at the Paramount Theatre. Alexander Olshanetsky.
 

[B11648]13:41:46                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) He died so young.

[B11648]13:41:49                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yes he did. Yeah.

[B11648]13:41:51                                                                        INTERVIEWER

At his memorial service there was a sign that read "Olshie, we love you too much".

[B11648]13:42:12                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

We all called him "Olshie" .

[B11648]13:42:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

"Olshie" .

[B11648]13:42:13                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah. We called him "Olshie".

[B11648]13:42:14                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Uh...

[B11648]13:42:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) We called Lebedeff "Lebby" .

[B11648]13:42:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah?

[B11648]13:42:18                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

 "Lebby" .

[B11648]13:42:19                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What about Skulnik?

[B11648]13:42:21                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

"Menasha" .

[B11648]13:42:22                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What did they call you?

[B11648]13:42:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I donít know. (interviewer laughs) They never let me hear what they called me. (interviewer laughs)

[B11648]13:42:28                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did you have a nickname?

[B11648]13:42:30                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, no. When I was young, they said I had patience of a saint. I did. But I've learned a lot since.

[B11648]13:42:39                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I think you still do.

[B11648]13:42:41                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(interviewer laughs) Well, I hope so. I hope so. You're supposed to live and learn. Every...

[B11648]13:42:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Right.

[B11648]13:42:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... day we learn something.

[B11648]13:42:46                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did you ever try to write a play?

[B11648]13:42:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I'm not capable.

[B11648]13:42:55                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) In those days?

[B11648]13:42:56                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I'm incapable of that.

[B11648]13:42:58                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(makes noise)

[B11648]13:42:59                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I never tried.

[B11648]13:43:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(unintelligible)

[B11648]13:43:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I, I never had that ambition.

[B11648]13:43:04                                                                        INTERVIEWER

How much did you improvise?

[B11648]13:43:12                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Um, when somebody missed a cue.

[B11648]13:43:16                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah?

[B11648]13:43:18                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

You had to improvise. I had an incident. I remember it very, very distinctly. (clears throat) Um, I have a scene with a man who wants to kill me, and I'm supposed to receive a phone call. And the phone never rang. Now, how do you go into this? So I got, I got on the phone, I said oh my god, I was just calling you. (interviewer laughs) You have to improvise, so you have to, you have to do something about it.

[B11648]13:43:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And you did that on the spot.

[B11648]13:43:50                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Absolutely. They alwaysÖ

[B11648]13:43:52                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) So thatís...

[B11648]13:43:52                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... said, when, when in doubt, improvise. Thatís how we improvised. Now, the phone never rang, he's gonna kill me. The end of the show. We're in the middle. How can we do that? We can't. Anyway, thatís what happened.

[B11648]13:44:10                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Was there a lot of that?

[B11648]13:44:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Oh, yeah. Oh, yes.

[B11648]13:44:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I suspect...

[B11648]13:44:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

People that didnít remember the lines.

[B11648]13:44:16                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Was there more forgetting of lines as compared to Broadway?

[B11648]13:44:25                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) With certain actors, yes. Certain...

[B11648]13:44:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11648]13:44:26                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... people couldnít remember lines, (interviewer laughs) unfortunately.  Um, in fact, we used to have prompters during the week. During the week, because we had a different show every night. One day I was a fourteen-year-old, the next day I was a grandmother, you know. So, but I could not stand the prompter. He would annoy me. So I had to show him that I knew my part by heart. I always, every prompter I worked with said please, donít prompt me. Because he confused me.

[B11648]13:45:01                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

And in order for them to stop, I had to have, like, a contest. I'll get there before you finish the sentence. So (interviewer laughs) , so it was bad for my performance. So they, they knew. Prompters never prompted me. They would only confuse me. I knew what I had to say.

[B11648]13:45:18                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11648]13:45:19                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(background noise) I, well, I, I learned a part overnight, verbatim.  I could, 10 pages, (makes noise) .  Like nothing. Don't ask me to do it today.

[B11648]13:45:27                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What happened to the scripts?

[B11648]13:45:32                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I donít need a script.

[end of tape: [B11648]13:45:33]


 

TAPE NUMBER: b11649

[B11649]13:45:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I could hear the echo of every line from the prompter's box.

[B11649]13:46:17                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Isn't it annoying?

[B11649]13:46:18                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And this wasnít from the front, and the prompter's box was in the front.

[B11649]13:46:23                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) In the front. We had them in the front, too.

[B11649]13:46:25                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) In the footlights?

[B11649]13:46:26                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

With a little...

[B11649]13:46:27                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11649]13:46:28                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Hood  over it, yeah.

[B11649]13:46:28                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And they didnít even need it.

[B11649]13:46:37                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) The prompters were very good.

[B11649]13:46:39                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11649]13:46:39                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

They knew who did know their parts, they...

[B11649]13:46:41                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11649]13:46:41                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... knew who didnít. Thatís what they were there for. In case, in case the... (technical)

[B11649]13:46:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did you ever see deliberate improvising, perhaps that they saw in the news that day?

[B11649]13:47:03                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

To bring it up to date, you mean?

[B11649]13:47:04                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11649]13:47:07                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Not really. If something was really very important, you, you know who had a flair for that? Jacob Jacobs. He really was incredible in his way of doing things. He, he was very timely. So he was about the only one that I could say, he would do that. He would put it into the show that, like it belonged. But it was actually happening at the present time.

[B11649]13:47:35                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Mm hm.

[B11649]13:47:36                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

He was the only one that I could say was capable of...

[B11649]13:47:38                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I'm trying to think of specific songs, like (speaks in yiddish) , but that was 1915.

[B11649]13:47:47                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah. He used to do duets with (sounds like) Yetta Zwerling. He took all the popular English songs and translated it into Yiddish, with their own storyline. It was the funny, it always tore the house down. Always. He had an incredible way of doing these, it was innate with him.

[B11649]13:48:10                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11649]13:48:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

And then he was the only one that also took American plays, and we did it in Yiddish.

[B11649]13:48:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah?

[B11649]13:48:18                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Detective Story, Anno Locasto (sp?) , uh, the one where the girl is deaf, deaf and dumb.

[B11649]13:48:27                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Helen Keller?

[B11649]13:48:31                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, not Helen Keller .

[B11649]13:48:32                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) No?

[B11649]13:48:33                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No, not Helen Keller. Whatever.

[B11649]13:48:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11649]13:48:36                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

But he brought these things to the Yiddish theatre, and we did it in Yiddish. Miriam Kressyn did "Anno Locasto".

[B11649]13:48:43                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I know.

[B11649]13:48:50                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I can't think of it.

[B11649]13:48:51                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Where else did you tour?

[B11649]13:48:56                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

All over. We went [to] New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, Milwaukee, Baltimore...

[B11649]13:49:03                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Milwaukee?

[B11649]13:49:04                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, of course. When we finished in Chicago on a Saturday night, we played Milwaukee on Sunday.

[B11649]13:49:10                                                                        INTERVIEWER

In Yiddish?

[B11649]13:49:10                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

In Yiddish. We always did very well. Very well.

[B11649]13:49:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Milwaukee  is primarily known as a German city.

[B11649]13:49:26                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

We didnít stay there for a long...

[B11649]13:49:27                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11649]13:49:27                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... time. We did two shows, matinee and evening. Period.

[B11649]13:49:29                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I saw St. Louis on the manifest for one show.

[B11649]13:49:34                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Oh, yeah. We, we hit them all. Detroit, Denver, whatever.

[B11649]13:49:38                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Denver?

[B11649]13:49:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.

[B11649]13:49:39                                                                        INTERVIEWER

In Yiddish?

[B11649]13:49:39                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah, in Yiddish. Yeah. The only place that we didnít go was Texas. Any, any city in Texas. Very few, we, we covered it from East Coast to the West Coast, to California.

[B11649]13:49:53                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) What years are you talking about, before or after the war?

[B11649]13:49:56                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

After. Mm hm.

[B11649]13:50:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What about before the war?

[B11649]13:50:03                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No. I...

[B11649]13:50:04                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (word?)

[B11649]13:50:04                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... I was too young then.

[B11649]13:50:05                                                                        INTERVIEWER

They didnít take children on the tours.

[B11649]13:50:06                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Right, right. Yeah.

[B11649]13:50:08                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did you go to South America?

[B11649]13:50:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No. I was invited to go, and didnít go...

[B11649]13:50:18                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) What about...

[B11649]13:50:19                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... I was invited to go to London, I didnít go.

[B11649]13:50:22                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What about Canada?

[B11649]13:50:25                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, Montreal, yeah. Montreal...

[B11649]13:50:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Who was...

[B11649]13:50:26                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... Toronto .

[B11649]13:50:27                                                                        INTERVIEWER

They had a resident Yiddish theatre in Montreal.

[B11649]13:50:30                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) They had a lot of Jews ...

[B11649]13:50:31                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11649]13:50:31                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... there. Tremendous Tremendous Jewish population. And we also went to the capital of Canada...

[B11649]13:50:37                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Ottawa.

[B11649]13:50:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Ottawa. Yeah, we were all the way. Always.

[B11649]13:50:42                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Was Montreal ...

[B11649]13:50:44                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Montreal was very good.

[B11649]13:50:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) A regular?

[B11649]13:50:46                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, well, it was, uh, one of the first cities that we hit from New York. Always did, we did very well businesswise.

[B11649]13:50:55                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I would think Montreal would be second only to New York.

[B11649]13:50:58                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Right, right, mm hm.

[B11649]13:51:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And...

[B11649]13:51:02                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I did a lot of vaudeville in Montreal.

[B11649]13:51:04                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Really?

[B11649]13:51:05                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) A lot, yeah.

[B11649]13:51:06                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You brought the plays from here and did them there?

[B11649]13:51:08                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

We brought plays there. But vaudeville was something else. We brought our own music. The numbers that we made popular and famous...

[B11649]13:51:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11649]13:51:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

And it worked out beautifully. Used to love to go to Montreal.

[B11649]13:51:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Do you remember the last show you did?

[B11649]13:51:32                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

"Majority of One". Not in Yiddish, in English.

[B11649]13:51:34                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) In English .

[B11649]13:51:36                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.

[B11649]13:51:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

So you also were...

[B11649]13:51:39                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Not too many.

[B11649]13:51:40                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did English plays.

[B11649]13:51:41                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I did "Come Blow Your Horn, and I did...

[B11649]13:51:43                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) These are big plays. I think it was Hal  March.

[B11649]13:51:58                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No, I donít, I donít recall.

[B11649]13:52:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Hal March and company?

[B11649]13:52:00                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) But I did it, I guess we were traveling with the show, so we didnít have the...

[B11649]13:52:04                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) In summer stock?

[B11649]13:52:06                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Uh, more or less, yeah. Summer stock.

[B11649]13:52:08                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) When you did "Majority of One"...

[B11649]13:52:15                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Molly Picon..

[B11649]13:52:16                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11649]13:52:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

She did (speaks in yiddish) . And we did it with several different male leads. But the one that was most interesting, whoís the fellow that did all the, um, um, "Pirates of Penzance"? You, he...

[B11649]13:52:32                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Martin Greene?

[B11649]13:52:32                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... he, yes. The one that lost his leg.

[B11649]13:52:35                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Martin Greene.

[B11649]13:52:35                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah. He was with us.

[B11649]13:52:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) He did that?

[B11649]13:52:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, I have a funny story...

[B11649]13:52:38                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) He lost his leg in an elevator accident.

[B11649]13:52:40                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) In an elevator, in a garage. (laugh) He was very funny. We used to travel, so, in the train or whatever, so I'd sit with him. He handed me a card. I read it. It was very funny. I said, the card read, I would like to make love to you tonight. If you refuse me, please return the card, because they're very expensive. (interviewer laughs) That was Martin Greene.

[B11649]13:53:08                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I'm not gonna ask if you returned the card or not.

[B11649]13:53:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(laugh) I did.

[B11649]13:53:12                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) But...

[B11649]13:53:13                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I, I said you're very chintzy. Hereís your (interviewer laughs) card back. Yeah.

[B11649]13:53:18                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I can't think of him doing a show like that...

[B11649]13:53:20                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Oh, he did. Oh, he was wonderful.

[B11649]13:53:21                                                                        INTERVIEWER

... I think of him only for the (word?) songs.

[B11649]13:53:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, no. No, no. He was wonderful in it. He...

[B11649]13:53:27                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) That was...

[B11649]13:53:27                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... managed to get down, in the second act, if you remember, the, the scene where she gets drunk?

[B11649]13:53:32                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11649]13:53:33                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

He managed to get down on the floor. But...

[B11649]13:53:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Who was the...

[B11649]13:53:44                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

The original was Gertrude Berg.

[B11649]13:53:46                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) She also did summer stock with...

[B11649]13:53:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

The, the, uh, oh, yes, he was an English actor.

[B11649]13:53:58                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It was done by several.

[B11649]13:53:59                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah. Many.

[B11649]13:54:01                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Uh...

[B11649]13:54:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Even I did it with many.

[B11649]13:54:02                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What was your last Yiddish show?

[B11649]13:54:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) The last Yiddish show I did, um...

[B11649]13:54:14                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) The latest.

[B11649]13:54:15                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Could have, could have been (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11649]13:54:19                                                                        INTERVIEWER

That would have been the fifties.

[B11649]13:54:28                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Late fifties, I would say.

[B11649]13:54:30                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Late fifties?

[B11649]13:54:30                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah. I'm trying to figure out, my son is fifty-nine, and my son was a little boy at the time. So, that's (unintelligible) ...

[B11649]13:54:41                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) But that had some English in it.

[B11649]13:54:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah. Mm hm.

[B11649]13:54:46                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11649]13:54:48                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah, that was, I think it was one of my last, something like that. I'm, I...

[B11649]13:54:55                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11649]13:54:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... think it was (speaks in yiddish) . Oh, we did that forever. We came to Florida , we had to go, go again, and again, and again, in Florida. It was wonderful.

[B11649]13:55:07                                                                        INTERVIEWER

How many children do you have?

[B11649]13:55:18                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) One, one son.

[B11649]13:55:19                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You have your son.

[B11649]13:55:19                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Two grandchildren, and a great, one great grand, of two years old.

[B11649]13:55:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Are any of them interested in theatre?

[B11649]13:55:26                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

My grand daughter is in, in Chicago. She's a producer for ABC.

[B11649]13:55:31                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What's her name?

[B11649]13:55:33                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Lisa Lubin.

[B11649]13:55:34                                                                        INTERVIEWER

For ABC?

[B11649]13:55:39                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

She's been with the company five years now.

[B11649]13:55:44                                                                        INTERVIEWER

How was it being in the Yiddish theatre at the time? How did you live? Did you live in the Second Avenue area?

[B11649]13:56:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No. I lived in Brooklyn. I remember coming home from New York, playing on Second Avenue, going home  to Brooklyn, and walking six blocks to where we lived, two in the morning, three in the morning. Thought nothing of it. Lights were on, lights were off, doors were left open. Nobody bothered you. Totally different world that weíre living in now. Yeah.

[B11649]13:56:30                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And your son didnít want to beÖ.

[B11649]13:56:33                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) My son is retired. My son is right now on the golf course. (interviewer laughs) If I need him, I have to page him on the golf course. (interviewer laughs) He lives...

[B11649]13:56:41                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Like...

[B11649]13:56:41                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... in Jersey. I donít have anybody living here with me, or close to me. Like years...

[B11649]13:56:47                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Your son lives in New Jersey?

[B11649]13:56:49                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes, in Randolph. But it, you know, years backÖ

[B11649]13:56:53                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And you have relatives in Virginia?

[B11649]13:56:56                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

My grandson...

[B11649]13:56:57                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Your grandson.

[B11649]13:56:58                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

...is in Virginia. Graduated as an engineer, hated it with a passion, and he joined medical supplies. (makes noise) Thank God. And, uh, he has a little boy of two years old. I'm, in fact, I'm (clears throat) to visit very shortly. I'm getting very lonely for my little baby.  Um, but years back, we were family, and we all got married. We lived one or two blocks away from where Mama lived. Friday night we all had to be there for the (speaks in yiddish) dinner, and the (speaks in yiddish) , and the whole bit.

[B11649]13:57:37                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What if there was a show?

[B11649]13:57:42                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

We, we worked shows Friday night.

[B11649]13:57:43                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11649]13:57:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I told you, we went, every time they started a new season, was one hour later for, after Yom Kippur.

[B11649]13:57:54                                                                        INTERVIEWER

On the same night.

[B11649]13:57:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Same night.

[B11649]13:57:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Just made it a late show.

[B11649]13:57:57                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right. And Mama used to say to, (speaks in yiddish) ? (interviewer laughs) Because I used to fast.  I always fasted. I said no, Mom, I can wait, I can wait. And I did. Didnít bother me. Now they tell me I shouldnít fast because I'm too old.

[B11649]13:58:14                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Hmm.

[B11649]13:58:15                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) (laugh)

[B11649]13:58:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Do you remember the Cafť Royale?

[B11649]13:58:19                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Of course.

[B11649]13:58:22                                                                        INTERVIEWER

When is the first time you went there?

[B11649]13:58:23                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Well...

[B11649]13:58:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did they let you in as a little girl?

[B11649]13:58:25                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Not when I was a little girl. When I was, uh, a grown woman. And I worked in the, all the theatres on Second Avenue . We used to join, meet there. (laugh) And you, and you listen to the actors, they said, I killed them tonight. I knocked them out. I said, will you stop with the killing, knocking out? We won't have an audience. They didnít pay attention to me. They kept raving about their performances. I thought they were insane. How do you talk about yourself?

[B11649]13:58:55                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

I could never do that. First of all, I never thought I had any talent. But then I figured out I must have had something, because I was, they wanted to engage me in every theatre
 that was open. So I must have had something to offer. The other day I went to see Mina Bern's performance, and they were talking about (cough) , so some of them reminded me that they all call me (speaks in yiddish) , a fighter. (makes noise) I didnít think I was (speaks in yiddish) . I knew I could dance very well. But I never thought of anything about that.

[B11649]13:59:32                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What show is Mina Bern  doing?

[B11649]13:59:34                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Mina Bern ? She did, uh...

[B11649]13:59:35                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping)  Is she the...

[B11649]13:59:35                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... her, a one woman show. She sang songs, she told, and then memories of her life. Where she's been, and, she's been quite a few places. Very...

[B11649]13:59:47                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Mm hm.

[B11649]13:59:47                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... interesting. And she's an amazing woman. She's really amazing. She stood up there for one and a half hours (interviewer laughs), and remembered all the lyrics, and the little patter that she had. Uh, she was fantastic. Something about being an actress, or an actor, they donít refer to actresses anymore.

[B11649]14:00:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yes they do.

[B11649]14:00:18                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

You have to be an actor.

[B11649]14:00:18                                                                        INTERVIEWER

There's an expression in Yiddish, if you donít have too many problems, you'll make some.

[B11649]14:00:36                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, that's very true...

[B11649]14:00:37                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Okay.

[B11649]14:00:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

That's very true.

[B11649]14:00:40                                                                        INTERVIEWER

The theatre is always special, but it seems the Yiddish theatre from this decade is even more special.

[B11649]14:01:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) More so. More so.

[B11649]14:01:12                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11649]14:01:13                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I donít think anybody in the Yiddish theatre had any training...

[B11649]14:01:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11649]14:01:17                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... Formal training for theatre.
.

[B11649]14:01:18                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I donít think so.

[B11649]14:01:19                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, we never did that. They said sing, we sang. Dance, we danced. Cry, we cried.

[B11649]14:01:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11649]14:01:27                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Laugh, we laughed. We just knew how to listen to a director. And give it to him as he wants it, so you donít have to repeat it. That was very important, to be a good listener.

[B11649]14:01:44                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It was important to come from parents, or grandparents, because otherwise they didnít want you in the theatre
.

[B11649]14:01:51                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right. But my (cough) father, apparently my father had it all planned for me.

[B11649]14:01:57                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You're lucky.

[B11649]14:02:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I donít know, I never thought about it. I'll have to try and analyze this. (interviewer laughs)

[B11649]14:02:05                                                                        INTERVIEWER

How did Esther  become Esta?

[B11649]14:02:08                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Um, uh, should I say too Jewish? No, not gonna say that. But...

[B11649]14:02:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Sure you can.

[B11649]14:02:17                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Herman Yablokoff said to my husband, what kind of name is Esther Saltzman for an actress? She doesnít look like an Esther Saltzman. So my husband said to him, well, what do you think she looks like? Who do you think she looks like? She said, he said to her, she looks like Sevilla, Sevilla. So my husband said, yeah, (speaks in yiddish) . (interviewer laughs) That was that. But, uh, they all said I should change my name.

[B11649]14:02:51                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

We never changed our names in the Yiddish theatre. We used our regular maiden names.  Um, and Esta  became just to shorten it. Esther, Esta. And actually, in Spanish, I found out that it means this. So I introduced myself, I'm a this. Thatís it.

[B11649]14:03:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And it became the...

[B11649]14:03:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

And it became, yeah.

[B11649]14:03:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

The trademark.

[B11649]14:03:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

And then I had it legalized, so I donít have any problem.

[B11649]14:03:19                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) First time I saw it, I thought it was a misprint.

[B11649]14:03:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

It's not. (interviewer laughs)

[B11649]14:03:25                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I thought somebody couldnít pronounce it.

[B11649]14:03:30                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Mm hm. And I say it very distinctly for people to know. My name is Esta. Then they know.

[end of tape: [B11649]14:03:38]


 

TAPE NUMBER: b11650

[B11650]14:23:38                                                                        INTERVIEWER

How old were you when you had your first boyfriend?

[B11650]14:23:42                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Um, sixteen.

[B11650]14:23:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

For the theatre, thatís old.

[B11650]14:23:47                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

It was old. I was too busy. I was working. Working, working, working. I didnít call it working. I had to bring Mama home money. I didnít call it working. I had to do it.

[B11650]14:23:59                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You supported the family.

[B11650]14:24:00                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

At the time.

[B11650]14:24:01                                                                        INTERVIEWER

A lot of famous children...

[B11650]14:24:03                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes, yes.

[B11650]14:24:04                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Um...

[B11650]14:24:05                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Just like today. Ha, ha, ha. (interviewer laughs) Whatever.

[B11650]14:24:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Mr. Latner, you started in the theatre at a young age.

[B11650]14:24:17                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

By 16 I was nearly retired. I started about eight. And what I did, uh, I got into it accidentally. I had lived on the Lower East Side, just, uh, half a block away from Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue" , where all the Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  theatre
s were in those days. And, uh, I went to Hebrew XE "Hebrew"  school nearby, and they had a choir, a synagogue choir, where we used to sing for the high holidays. And a number of my friends were, who were in the choir, one of the boys, uh, his last name was Scheckman XE "Scheckman"  (sp?) .

[B11650]14:24:52                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

And I remember he, he said, his brother was something in the Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  theatre
. The director, or an assistant, or something. And they were looking for little boys for a show, would I be interested. I said sure I'd be interested. Does it pay money? He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, it pays. So, um, I went down to the Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue"  theatre
 with him, and this was sort of in the, I guess they used to cast in the summertime for the fall opening. So, we went in there, and they were, uh, auditioning in the lobby.

[B11650]14:25:26                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

They had a great big lobby. It was the Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue"  theatre
 on Second Street XE "Street:See Also:Twelfth Street"  XE "Street:See Also:Seventh Street"  XE "Street:See Also:East Sixth Street"  XE "Street:See Also:East Fourth Street"  XE "Street"  and Second Avenue. And the big boss of that theatre
 was a very imposing, intimidating man, Herman Yablokoff XE "Herman Yablokoff:See Also:Yablokoff"  XE "Herman Yablokoff" . And, uh, they used to call him Yabby XE "Yabby" .

[B11650]14:25:41                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Everybody called him "Yabby" .

[B11650]14:25:42                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) And, we, we didnít, uh, we didnít know who was Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff" , who was any, you know, we were just little kids, and we thought we could make a little money. So I got the job. And the name of the show was (speaks in yiddish) . And it was a very big smash hit. He really, and, and the show had a lot of children. There were, there were two sets of children. I was the youngest. The youngest set were Cub Scouts XE "Cub Scouts:See Also:Scouts"  XE "Cub Scouts" . We were Cub Scouts XE "Scouts:See Also:Cub Scouts"  XE "Scouts" .

[B11650]14:26:10                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

They gave us little blue uniforms, with little caps. And then there were about three or four older boys who were Boy Scouts XE "Scouts:See Also:Cub Scouts"  XE "Scouts" . These were already, you know, 12, 13, 14. I remember, Sanford Rosen XE "Sanford Rosen:See Also:Rose"  XE "Sanford Rosen"  was one of the other, the older boys, and my friend Sammy Milman XE "Sammy Milman"  (sp?)  was one of the little, he was, he was so tiny, I was short for my age, but he was about a head shorter than me. So we got to be friends. It was a bunch of kids, and we were in this show. And they gave us some stuff to learn. Fortunately I had been learning Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  in the Hebrew XE "Hebrew"  school, so I, I knew...

[B11650]14:26:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Mm hm.

[B11650]14:26:45                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  already. Plus it was spoken in my home.

[B11650]14:26:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  in Hebrew XE "Hebrew"  school?

[B11650]14:26:51                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Well, it was a Talmud Torah XE "Talmud Torah:See Also:Torah"  XE "Talmud Torah" .

[B11650]14:26:53                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Oh, okay.

[B11650]14:26:53                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

It was the Talmud Torah XE "Talmud Torah:See Also:Torah"  XE "Talmud Torah" . And they taught us Hebrew XE "Hebrew"  in order to read, because eventually we have to know for the bar mitzvah. But the rabbi was a European XE "European"  guy who, who knew Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish" . We had a book called (speaks in yiddish) , The Jew XE "Jew:See Also:Tremendous Jewish"  XE "Jew:See Also:Hillcrest Jewish Center"  XE "Jew" ish XE "Jewish:See Also:Hillcrest Jewish Center"  XE "Jewish:See Also:Tremendous Jewish"  XE "Jewish"  Teacher XE "Jewish Teacher" , and we used to copy, copy...

[B11650]14:27:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) For (speaks in yiddish) you need Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish" .

[B11650]14:27:14                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Yeah.

[B11650]14:27:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Which one was it? Not Jacob XE "Jacob:See Also:Thelma Jacobs"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Joe Jacobs"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Irving Jacobson"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Henrietta Jacobson"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Henrietta Jacobsen"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Betty Jacobs"  XE "Jacob"  Joseph XE "Jacob Joseph" .

[B11650]14:27:22                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

No, no. No, my cousin went there.

[B11650]14:27:24                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11650]14:27:24                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

It was a very small Talmud Torah XE "Talmud Torah:See Also:Torah"  XE "Talmud Torah" ...

[B11650]14:27:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11650]14:27:27                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

The rabbi started out on, uh, East Sixth Street XE "East Sixth Street:See Also:Street"  XE "East Sixth Street" , in a little basement. Then he moved to Seventh Street XE "Seventh Street:See Also:Street"  XE "Seventh Street" . It was Rabbi XE "Rabbi"  Parilli XE "Rabbi Parilli"  (sp?) , was his name.

[B11650]14:27:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You mentioned (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:27:43                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) I'll tell you, (speaks in yiddish) , I'll tell...

[B11650]14:27:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11650]14:27:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

...you the songs. Because I remember...

[B11650]14:27:46                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11650]14:27:46                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... the songs.

[B11650]14:27:47                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish)

[B11650]14:27:48                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:27:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Sing XE "Sing"  it.

[B11650]14:27:49                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) (technical)

[B11650]14:27:54                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(sounds like) (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11650]14:27:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:27:56                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Yeah.

[B11650]14:27:56                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(makes noise) (singing) ...

[B11650]14:27:57                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish)

[B11650]14:28:57                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:28:02                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

No, no, no, no. It's a different song. No, not (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:28:05                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No?

[B11650]14:28:06                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) This is (singing) (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11650]14:28:08                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) It's two different...

[B11650]14:28:08                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11650]14:28:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) . Yeah.

[B11650]14:28:13                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(singing) (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11650]14:28:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (sounds like) (speaks in yiddish) ..

[B11650]14:28:15                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... (makes noise) , (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11650]14:28:20                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Right.

[B11650]14:28:21                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... (speaks in yiddish) Was written by Illia Trilling XE "Illia Trilling:See Also:Trilling"  XE "Illia Trilling"  (sp?) .

[B11650]14:28:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Thatís right.

[B11650]14:28:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Trilling. That's the... (technical)

[B11650]14:28:39                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Different show, different song.

[B11650]14:28:40                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Right.

[B11650]14:28:40                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Is this the show where they go to Hawaii XE "Hawaii" ?

[B11650]14:28:45                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Yes, yes (interviewer laughs) , yes. The Hawaii XE "Hawaii" ...

[B11650]14:28:48                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I remember (unintelligible) .

[B11650]14:28:48                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) And, I remember it quite vividly...

[B11650]14:28:50                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11650]14:28:51                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(singing) (speaks in yiddish) . And Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff"  sang that himself to this beautiful little girl. And, if I can tell you, the, there's a little story about this little girl, Malka Lobiler XE "Malka Lobiler"  (sp?) . She was a little girl, very talented girl, who was a refugee from the war. Her family were Holocaust XE "Holocaust"  survivors. She came over here, and she was a natural talent. She had a huge party. I mean, our part was just a few pages, and we had a few lines here, little lines there. We were just, you know, incidentals.

[B11650]14:29:33                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

We were in the chorus. But this little girl was really the star of the show. Malka Lobiler XE "Malka Lobiler" . So, she was in the show, and she, she, the audience was just overwhelmed. (speaks in yiddish) They were completely overwhelmed. And what happened is, after a few, and Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff"  was a little concerned about this, because he figured, kids can sometimes get troublesome.  You know, they become primadonnas. And this is what happened.

[B11650]14:29:58                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

And I, I learned this story, actually, not at the time. At the time I didnít know it. But from reading Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff" 's biography, (background noise) I learned the story that happened many years earlier. The father came and said, we want, we want her salary tripled, or we're gonna pull her out. And Yablokoff didnít like to be high handed this way. So what he did, he was very smart. He says, I'll think about it. I'll think about it. In the meantime,  he found another little girl, he coached her, and I think he, he taught this Malka Lobiler XE "Malka Lobiler"  a lesson. Because they had the other, then they split the part up, with the original girl to the second girl who did just as well. So, thatís how he handled her.

[B11650]14:30:39                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Mm hm.

[B11650]14:30:39                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) And was that in the '40s or '30s?

[B11650]14:30:41                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

The '40s.

[B11650]14:30:43                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What is the story with Golda XE "Golda"  Nobecker XE "Golda Nobecker"  (sp?) ?

[B11650]14:30:47                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

There's more I could...

[B11650]14:30:48                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Goes to Hawaii XE "Hawaii" ...

[B11650]14:30:48                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I didnít see it.

[B11650]14:30:50                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And (unintelligible) ...

[B11650]14:30:50                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Well, I'll tell you (clears throat) a little bit more about the show, because...

[B11650]14:30:52                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11650]14:30:53                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

It had everything (unintelligible) ...

[B11650]14:30:54                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) It was one of those shows.

[B11650]14:30:56                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) It, they...

[B11650]14:30:57                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Always.

[B11650]14:30:57                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... had it all. They had a chorus of female dancers, they had, some of the actors in the show were, uh, Jacob XE "Jacob:See Also:Thelma Jacobs"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Joe Jacobs"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Irving Jacobson"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Henrietta Jacobson"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Henrietta Jacobsen"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Betty Jacobs"  XE "Jacob"  Zanger XE "Jacob Zanger"  (sp?) , I remember. Max XE "Max" ...

[B11650]14:31:05                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11650]14:31:05                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... Rosenblat XE "Rosenblat" . Um, uh, uh, Bella XE "Bella:See Also:Della Bella Botten"  XE "Bella"  Meisel XE "Bella Meisel"  was the leading lady, was, I, I donít know if she was married to him at the time, because I know she was originally married to, uh...

[B11650]14:31:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping)

[B11650]14:31:16                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... Ulchanefsky XE "Ulchanefsky:See Also:Alexander Ulchanefsky"  XE "Ulchanefsky" ...

[B11650]14:31:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Ulchanefsky XE "Ulchanefsky:See Also:Alexander Ulchanefsky"  XE "Ulchanefsky" .

[B11650]14:31:17                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

And then subsequently divorced Ulchanefsky XE "Ulchanefsky:See Also:Alexander Ulchanefsky"  XE "Ulchanefsky"  and got married to Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff" .

[B11650]14:31:21                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right. Mm hm.

[B11650]14:31:22                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) But she, but she...

[B11650]14:31:22                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) She divorced Ulchanefsky XE "Ulchanefsky:See Also:Alexander Ulchanefsky"  XE "Ulchanefsky" .

[B11650]14:31:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11650]14:31:23                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Ulchanefsky XE "Ulchanefsky:See Also:Alexander Ulchanefsky"  XE "Ulchanefsky" .

[B11650]14:31:24                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I thought it was after he died.

[B11650]14:31:26                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No.

[B11650]14:31:26                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) No, no. No, no, no, no, no...

[B11650]14:31:27                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No, no.

[B11650]14:31:27                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... They were still around. Ulchanefsky XE "Ulchanefsky:See Also:Alexander Ulchanefsky"  XE "Ulchanefsky"  was in a different theatre
. They were both very, very busy working. So, um, but Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff"  was essentially the leading man. He was a little mature to be a leading man, but he was okay. And she was the leading lady. And then there was there was a woman who, uh, who, who, who had a thing for him. And, and there was sort of a little, uh, complication in the pot and so on. There was this little girl, Melka Lobiler XE "Melka Lobiler" , who they found this little girl, they wanted to adopt her.

[B11650]14:31:56                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

But she was paralyzed. She couldnít walk. But the paralysis was emotional. I think Bella XE "Bella:See Also:Della Bella Botten"  XE "Bella"  Meiser XE "Bella Meiser"  played the part of a social worker. And he was working with this little girl. So, in the middle of this show, there was a dream, Snow White XE "Snow White"  And The Seven Dwarfs XE "Dwarfs" . They worked that in. So they took us kids, and they made us dwarfs. They dressed us up like the different, you know,  at the time. The country was still, uh, you know, that great movie, the Walt Disney XE "Walt Disney"  movie of Snow White.

[B11650]14:32:22                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

So, we were the seven dwarfs.  Uh, and for, and that was in act two. The kid had a dream, the girl had a dream about the seven dwarfs and everything. And then toward the end of the, and then they went to Hawaii XE "Hawaii" . And he was a baker. And then, he came from Europe XE "Europe" , and he sang a wonderful, every show had to have, uh, a nostalgic song about the (speaks in yiddish) .  You know, like the greatest of those songs was (speaks in yiddish) . But, they didnít have (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:32:46                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

They had another song that was almost as beautiful. It was called (speaks in yiddish) . Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff"  sang it. Very emotional song, a wonderful, wonderful song. And, uh, toward the end of the  show, when, uh, this, and, oh, by the way, this woman who, who had, uh, her eye on Yablokoff, uh, and the little girl didnít like her, and she didnít like her. In the dream, where we were the seven dwarfs, the, this woman, I forgot her name, uh, she, she was the witch.

[B11650]14:33:17                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

She was the witch from Snow White XE "Snow White"  And The Seven Dwarfs XE "Dwarfs" . And when she came to the little girl, and, and, and she was going, she was threatening her, the little girl jumped out of her wheelchair, and waked. And suddenly, that was the big breakthrough. You saw it was psychological and emotional. The girl was able to walk. And when the show ended, the girl walked, uh, Bella XE "Bella:See Also:Della Bella Botten"  XE "Bella"  and Yabby XE "Yabby"  got married, and they lived (laugh) happily ever after.  And it was a beautiful ending.

[B11650]14:33:41                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) The happily ever after I remember.

[B11650]14:33:43                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Yeah, (laugh) yeah. But, but what happened is, as the show...

[B11650]14:33:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I donít remember the wheelchair.

[B11650]14:33:48                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Oh, I remember that so, she was in the wheelchair, and...

[B11650]14:33:51                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11650]14:33:51                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... and (unintelligible)  is, is approaching her, the witch is approaching her...

[B11650]14:33:53                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11650]14:33:53                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... and everything. And she starts screaming. The little girl was petrified. And she runs to escape her. And suddenly she realized she's walking.  You know, little dramatic...

[B11650]14:34:01                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I was still wondering why they went to Hawaii XE "Hawaii" .

[B11650]14:34:15                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) He would find a reason.

[B11650]14:34:16                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) There was a Hawaii XE "Hawaii"  number. (speaks in yiddish) And they all had these little leis around...

[B11650]14:34:21                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11650]14:34:21                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... their necks. And...

[B11650]14:34:22                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) He knew what the audience loved.

[B11650]14:34:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

That's what it was.

[B11650]14:34:24                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) And they had very skimpy consumes.

[B11650]14:34:25                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) And he put everything into it, heart and soul. And they loved it. He did fantastic business...

[B11650]14:34:31                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping)

[B11650]14:34:32                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... I wasnít in that show.

[B11650]14:34:33                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Oh, he was a great, and he...

[B11650]14:34:34                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) But he, he was so wonderful.

[B11650]14:34:34                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... And he did so well that season that the following season...

[B11650]14:34:37                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.

[B11650]14:34:37                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

He did two shows.

[B11650]14:34:38                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish)

[B11650]14:34:41                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

No, Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff" . (technical)

[B11650]14:34:42                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff"  was so successful, and a lot of people said he's overreaching himself. The next season he took a public theatre
, and, uh...

[B11650]14:34:50                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue" .

[B11650]14:34:50                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... and, uh, Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue" . He had two theatre
s.

[B11650]14:34:52                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right.

[B11650]14:34:53                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

One show was called (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11650]14:34:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

That was in the public theatre
.

[B11650]14:34:56                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) My wife flower. You remember that? In public theatre
.

[B11650]14:34:57                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Public theatre
.

[B11650]14:34:58                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

And they had a...

[B11650]14:34:58                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I worked in the Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue"  theatre
.

[B11650]14:35:00                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) The Second, yeah. And then he, he had two shows.

[B11650]14:35:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.

[B11650]14:35:01                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) So he became, you know, like, uh, you know, a David XE "David"  Merrick XE "David Merrick"  (sp?) . But one thing I, just about us, the kids, what happened is in the dream sequence, occurred around, uh, 10, 10:30. And about midway, uh, through the season, they, they decided that it's too late to keep these kids up so late. And we, also, we couldnít stay to the very end to take our bows with the curtain calls, because we had to go to school the next day. So what they did is, they cut out the dream sequence, and they, they eliminated us from the, the bows later on.

[B11650]14:35:34                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

And we went home right after the early part. We were in the opening. So after the opening we left. We went home. We had to go to sleep. As it was, we probably didnít get, I guess it was about 10, 10, 10:30 by the time we got home. So that was my, that was my introduction to the Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  theatre
.

[B11650]14:35:50                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And you were how old?

[B11650]14:35:53                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Eight XE "Eight" , eight...

[B11650]14:35:54                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Eight XE "Eight" , nine?

[B11650]14:35:55                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Eight XE "Eight" , nine, something like that.

[B11650]14:35:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What was the first time you saw Esta XE "Esta"  Saltzman XE "Esta Saltzman:See Also:Saltzman"  XE "Esta Saltzman"  in the theatre
?

[B11650]14:36:00                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) I saw her dancing in one show. I guess it was with, uh, Dave Lebritsky XE "Dave Lebritsky"  (sp?) . She was a great dancer. She was really good.

[B11650]14:36:08                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I, I was good, dancing.

[B11650]14:36:10                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

She was good.

[B11650]14:36:10                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I was.

[B11650]14:36:12                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Um, and I think, like, uh..

[B11650]14:36:14                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(unintelligible)

[B11650]14:36:16                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Yeah. Well, we saw, when I went to, I, recently I went to that, uh, (word?) O'Brien, uh, evening at the 92nd Street XE "Street:See Also:Twelfth Street"  XE "Street:See Also:Seventh Street"  XE "Street:See Also:East Sixth Street"  XE "Street:See Also:East Fourth Street"  XE "Street"  Y. They showed a film clip of a movie where Esta XE "Esta"  was dancing.

[B11650]14:36:27                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Really?

[B11650]14:36:28                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11650]14:36:28                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Oh, yeah.

[B11650]14:36:29                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Yeah.

[B11650]14:36:29                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What movie?

[B11650]14:36:29                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) It was a great film clip of that.

[B11650]14:36:31                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I donít know. I did about ten of them. I didnít know the...

[B11650]14:36:35                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) There were a lot of Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  movies in those days.

[B11650]14:36:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I know.

[B11650]14:36:37                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) And I did all of them.

[B11650]14:36:40                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

She was in the (cough) movies.

[B11650]14:36:41                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Uh...

[B11650]14:36:41                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Were you in (speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11650]14:36:47                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish)

[B11650]14:36:47                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) No.

[B11650]14:36:48                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) There were two or three that were big in the '30s.

[B11650]14:36:51                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes, she did quite a few. But...

[B11650]14:36:52                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Uh...

[B11650]14:36:52                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... the, most of them were done by Green...

[B11650]14:36:54                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Joseph Green .

[B11650]14:36:55                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Thatís right.

[B11650]14:36:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) And he did most of them in Poland.

[B11650]14:36:56                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Joseph Green XE "Joseph Green" e XE "Joseph Greene:See Also:Greene"  XE "Joseph Greene" .

[B11650]14:36:57                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You didnít go to Poland XE "Poland:See Also:Russian Poland"  XE "Poland" .

[B11650]14:36:59                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right, right.

[B11650]14:37:01                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It was Joseph Green XE "Joseph Green" .

[B11650]14:37:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I just remembered another play that Jacob , from before, Jacob Jacobs...

[B11650]14:37:06                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Jacob XE "Jacob:See Also:Thelma Jacobs"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Joe Jacobs"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Irving Jacobson"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Henrietta Jacobson"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Henrietta Jacobsen"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Betty Jacobs"  XE "Jacob"  Jacobs XE "Jacob Jacobs:See Also:Jacobs"  XE "Jacob Jacobs" .

[B11650]14:37:06                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

...did in, in Yiddish, "Johnny Belinda" .

[B11650]14:37:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Really?

[B11650]14:37:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

In Yiddish.

[B11650]14:37:12                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Wasnít Miriam XE "Miriam"  Kretzen XE "Miriam Kretzen"  in that?

[B11650]14:37:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No, she did...

[B11650]14:37:14                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) No?

[B11650]14:37:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... "Anna Locasto" .

[B11650]14:37:15                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) "Anna Lucasta" ...

[B11650]14:37:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) thatísÖ.

[B11650]14:37:15                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... Right. I...

[B11650]14:37:17                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Johnny Belinda .

[B11650]14:37:17                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Johnny Belinda" ...

[B11650]14:37:19                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) And he got the, uh, one of the girls that did it on Broadway. She did the mute.

[B11650]14:37:25                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Huh.

[B11650]14:37:26                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

The English one. But the rest of it was in Yiddish . He had such a (speaks in yiddish) . You know what a (speaks in yiddish) is?

[B11650]14:37:34                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Was the first time you saw her dance in a film?

[B11650]14:37:42                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

No, I saw...

[B11650]14:37:42                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) In...

[B11650]14:37:42                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

ÖI saw her dancing live back in those days, when, uh, the shows all had, uh...

[B11650]14:37:48                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) And now you're seeing me live. Isn't that amazing?

[B11650]14:37:48                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

...dancers. And I'm seeing you live again. And I (laugh) also...

[B11650]14:37:51                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You might even see her dance.

[B11650]14:37:52                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Well, Esta XE "Esta"  happens to be a member of a group that I belong to also, the Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  Artists XE "Yiddish Artists:See Also:Art"  XE "Yiddish Artists"  And Friends XE "Friends" . (laugh)

[B11650]14:37:58                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What's that?

[B11650]14:37:58                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No, I donít belong to them.

[B11650]14:37:59                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11650]14:37:59                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Well, she has attended...

[B11650]14:38:00                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Thatís alright.

[B11650]14:38:00                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... some of our functions. This...

[B11650]14:38:02                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11650]14:38:02                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... is a group of, uh, well, it, it, it's, uh, headed up by Corey Briar XE "Corey Briar"  (sp?) , whoís, uh, a Yiddishist XE "Yiddishist" .  Uh, I'm sure youíve heard his name. And he's having a big annual event. And he is trying to preserve the Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  language. So we meet about once every other month, at the Yiddish theatrical building on Seventh Street XE "Seventh Street:See Also:Street"  XE "Seventh Street" . And once a year, and I, I, um, I, I told Gina XE "Gina"  about this, and I, and I just want you to know, weíre going to have our, we have an annual gala (background noise) dinner dance.

[B11650]14:38:34                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

And most of the folks who are still left in, uh, uh, who have some interest in Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  theatre
, come to it. They have an annual event. Last year's guest of honor was Fivish Finkel XE "Fivish Finkel"  (sp?) , Claire Barry XE "Claire Barry:See Also:Ba"  XE "Claire Barry"  comes down. And, uh, uh, uh, Mina Burn XE "Mina Burn" , and, uh...

[B11650]14:38:49                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Shifrra Lehrer . (clears throat)

[B11650]14:38:50                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Shifra Lehrer. Lillian XE "Lillian:See Also:Isidore Lillian"  XE "Lillian:See Also:Isadore Lillian"  XE "Lillian"  Lux XE "Lillian Lux"  (sp?) . I hope she's well.

[B11650]14:38:53                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

If she's well.

[B11650]14:38:53                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Yeah, she's well. And whoever else is, uh, Bruce Adler XE "Bruce Adler:See Also:Adler"  XE "Bruce Adler" .  Uh, and, and, and, uh, uh, what's Lillian XE "Lillian:See Also:Isidore Lillian"  XE "Lillian:See Also:Isadore Lillian"  XE "Lillian" 's son, uh...

[B11650]14:39:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Michael Burstein. (sp?) .

[B11650]14:39:02                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Mike Burstein.

[B11650]14:39:03                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

If he's in town.

[B11650]14:39:03                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

If he's in town. So we get (cough) a very nice turnout.  Uh, Irving XE "Irving"  Fields XE "Irving Fields" , wasnít in Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  theatre
, but...

[B11650]14:39:09                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) No.

[B11650]14:39:09                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

...you know, he plays the...

[B11650]14:39:10                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11650]14:39:10                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... Miami XE "Miami"  beach rhumba. Hm?

[B11650]14:39:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

He's playing. He's still playing.

[B11650]14:39:12                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Bagos XE "Bagos"  and bongos.

[B11650]14:39:13                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

But, thatís right. That's right.

[B11650]14:39:14                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) He's still playing.

[B11650]14:39:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Really?

[B11650]14:39:15                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Managua XE "Managua" , Nicaragua XE "Nicaragua" , and Miami XE "Miami"  Beach XE "Miami Beach:See Also:Beach"  XE "Miami Beach"  rhumba, and all that.

[B11650]14:39:18                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) And a wonderful restaurant.

[B11650]14:39:18                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Thatís fifties.

[B11650]14:39:23                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Well, there was still Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  theatre
, in the '40s. fifties, and '60s.

[B11650]14:39:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11650]14:39:27                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

And I, I, what happened with me is that after (speaks in yiddish) , as often happens, I got the bug. And so one show led to another show, to another show. So, eventually I got to work with small roles. I never reached the, uh, status of, uh, Esta XE "Esta" , but I got little, little parts in, um, in a show with, uh, Maurice XE "Maurice"  Schwartz XE "Maurice Schwartz:See Also:Schwartz"  XE "Maurice Schwartz" , called (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:39:51                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Mm hm.

[B11650]14:39:52                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

And that was a fun experience, because we had a live goat in the show.

[B11650]14:39:56                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Mm hm.

[B11650]14:39:56                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

And the, (laugh)  the goat, because they were trying to establish the fact that he was, uh, retarded, mentally retarded.  You know the story, and the people in the town thought that this mentally retarded person was (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:40:08                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Right.

[B11650]14:40:08                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) One, one of the 36...

[B11650]14:40:10                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Thirty six just men.

[B11650]14:40:11                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Holy XE "Holy"  men.

[B11650]14:40:12                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Just men.

[B11650]14:40:12                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Just holy men who, uh, upon whose merit the world stands. And so, they were establishing that he was, uh, a little mentally deficient. So, in an early scene, myself, and I think one or two other kids, were playing with a goat in a scene. And he came over, and we got into a fight over the goat. And we had a live goat, so we had, uh, it took us about a half an hour to get ready for that part, because we had to paste on the glue for the (word?) , we had to put on the (word?) . We fixed ourselves up. It took (background noise) 30 minutes, and the whole part was about five minutes.

[B11650]14:40:46                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Mm hm.

[B11650]14:40:47                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

In that scene.

[B11650]14:40:48                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Mm hm.

[B11650]14:40:49                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

But it was really something to work with, uh, with Murray XE "Murray"  Schwartz XE "Murray Schwartz:See Also:Schwartz"  XE "Murray Schwartz"  in that show. I, at the time I didnít really know that much about him.

[B11650]14:40:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Was that a musical?

[B11650]14:40:59                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No.

[B11650]14:40:58                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) No, no, no.

[B11650]14:40:59                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) This is a...

[B11650]14:41:00                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) They later made a musical out of it in Israel XE "Israel:See Also:New Israel Opera"  XE "Israel" .

[B11650]14:41:02                                                                        INTERVIEWER

But when you were in it...

[B11650]14:41:04                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

No, when we, it was a straight...

[B11650]14:41:04                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) It was a straight play.

[B11650]14:41:05                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Where was it done?

[B11650]14:41:07                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Straight play...

[B11650]14:41:07                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Was that on Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue" ?

[B11650]14:41:07                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... At the public, the public theatre
 on, oh, yes. Oh yes.

[B11650]14:41:10                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Didnít he have a theatre
...

[B11650]14:41:12                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Folks Theatre.
 

[B11650]14:41:12                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Twelfth Street XE "Twelfth Street:See Also:Street"  XE "Twelfth Street" .

[B11650]14:41:12                                                                        INTERVIEWER

...uptown?

[B11650]14:41:13                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Folks Theatre.

[B11650]14:41:14                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

No, he had the, uh, Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  Art Theatre
 XE "Yiddish Art Theatre
:See Also:Art"  XE "Yiddish Art Theatre
:See Also:Theatre
"  XE "Yiddish Art Theatre
"  on 12th...

[B11650]14:41:16                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11650]14:41:16                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... Street XE "Street:See Also:Twelfth Street"  XE "Street:See Also:Seventh Street"  XE "Street:See Also:East Sixth Street"  XE "Street:See Also:East Fourth Street"  XE "Street"  and Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue" .

[B11650]14:41:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Twelfth Street.

[B11650]14:41:18                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

That was the...

[B11650]14:41:18                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Where we did (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:41:20                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Wasnít he further uptown?

[B11650]14:41:23                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Twelfth Street XE "Twelfth Street:See Also:Street"  XE "Twelfth Street" , 12th Street XE "Street:See Also:Twelfth Street"  XE "Street:See Also:Seventh Street"  XE "Street:See Also:East Sixth Street"  XE "Street:See Also:East Fourth Street"  XE "Street" ...

[B11650]14:41:23                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Twelfth Street.

[B11650]14:41:23                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... Right opposite...

[B11650]14:41:24                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Almost in Gramercy Park XE "Gramercy Park" .

[B11650]14:41:24                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... the Cafť Royale.

[B11650]14:41:25                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Right.

[B11650]14:41:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11650]14:41:26                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Remember, the Cafť Royale.

[B11650]14:41:26                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Exactly.

[B11650]14:41:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) That's right.

[B11650]14:41:28                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.

[B11650]14:41:28                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Twelfth Street XE "Twelfth Street:See Also:Street"  XE "Twelfth Street" . The building is still there. It's now a, uh..

[B11650]14:41:31                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Movie picture.

[B11650]14:41:31                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... movie plex, multiplex...

[B11650]14:41:32                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11650]14:41:32                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

ÖThere's a big plaque on...

[B11650]14:41:34                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

In the lobby.

[B11650]14:41:35                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

In the lobby. I was there at the dedication.

[B11650]14:41:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Mm hm.

[B11650]14:41:38                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

About 15 years ago. Seymour XE "Seymour"  (sp?) was there, Miriam XE "Miriam" , and Seymour, and a few other old timers (unintelligible) ...

[B11650]14:41:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Did they have incidental music for that?

[B11650]14:41:50                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Oh, yeah, yeah, sure.

[B11650]14:41:51                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Some very fine composers wrote for Murray XE "Murray"  Schwartz XE "Murray Schwartz:See Also:Schwartz"  XE "Murray Schwartz" .

[B11650]14:41:59                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Thatís a different story.

[B11650]14:42:00                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Oh, yeah.

[B11650]14:42:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Like background music.

[B11650]14:42:05                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  Art Theatre
 XE "Yiddish Art Theatre
:See Also:Art"  XE "Yiddish Art Theatre
:See Also:Theatre
"  XE "Yiddish Art Theatre
" . But, uh, but then...

[B11650]14:42:07                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11650]14:42:07                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... I, that, that was a very, very memorable show. And, uh, there were other musicals in those days, when I was around. I remember Molly XE "Molly" , uh, I think Molly Picka XE "Molly Picka"  (sp?)  was in a musical called the, I think she was the Kosher Widow XE "Kosher Widow" .

[B11650]14:42:21                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Kosher Widow XE "Kosher Widow" , yes.

[B11650]14:42:22                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I was in that. I was in that.

[B11650]14:42:22                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Uh, you were in that one?...

[B11650]14:42:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yep.

[B11650]14:42:24                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... Okay. I have you in, I, I brought a few pieces of memorabilia, which, uh, one of them...

[B11650]14:42:29                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Was that your first show with Molly XE "Molly" ?

[B11650]14:42:33                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No. That was...

[B11650]14:42:34                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) We recorded a song from Kosher Widow XE "Kosher Widow" .

[B11650]14:42:44                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

I love the, the, I, I, I heard the first one by Ellstein XE "Ellstein"  (sp?) . (technical)

[B11650]14:43:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You were in The Dishwasher XE "Dishwasher" , werenít you?

[B11650]14:43:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes.

[B11650]14:43:39                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You know...

[B11650]14:43:39                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Herman Yablokoff's.

[B11650]14:43:40                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11650]14:43:41                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I was in everything. (laugh) I can't remember anything, but you mention names, I was in it.

[B11650]14:43:45                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) The Dishwasher XE "Dishwasher" .

[B11650]14:43:46                                                                        INTERVIEWER

We recorded the song with the old man washing dishes.

[B11650]14:43:50                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah. I, mm hm.

[B11650]14:43:51                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11650]14:43:52                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11650]14:43:53                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish)

[B11650]14:43:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(speaks in yiddish)

[B11650]14:43:56                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:43:59                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Thatís it.

[B11650]14:43:59                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Lovely XE "Lovely" , lovely song. Where was Papirosen"  (sp?) from? Thatís another song he made famous.

[B11650]14:44:02                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) It's hard to tell which came first, the song or the show.

[B11650]14:45:18                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) He was very capable.

[B11650]14:45:19                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11650]14:45:20                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

He really was. He...

[B11650]14:45:21                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible) ...

[B11650]14:45:21                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... put everything into it.

[B11650]14:45:23                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Do you know the...

[B11650]14:45:23                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) To please an audience.

[B11650]14:45:24                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You were in (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:45:25                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:45:26                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yes, I was.

[B11650]14:45:27                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Menasha XE "Menasha"  Skulnik XE "Menasha Skulnik:See Also:Skulnik"  XE "Menasha Skulnik"  was in that, wasnít he?

[B11650]14:45:28                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I, I think so.

[B11650]14:45:29                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11650]14:45:35                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:45:36                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No.

[B11650]14:45:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It says you were in that.

[B11650]14:45:38                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) . (technical)

[B11650]14:47:02                                                      ESTA SALTZMAN (CONTINUED)

Thatís all within two and a half hours.

[B11650]14:47:03                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Your name is on the back, so you were in it.

[B11650]14:47:12                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Probably.

[B11650]14:47:12                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11650]14:47:17                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) ...was a movie, wasnít it?

[B11650]14:47:18                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yes.

[B11650]14:47:20                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I was in that.

[B11650]14:47:20                                                                        INTERVIEWER

... And the "Kosher Widow" .

[B11650]14:47:25                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I was in that. Mm hm. (technical)

[B11650]14:47:43                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Tell me about the thing you sent me.

[B11650]14:47:51                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Uh, no, no, High, I, I sent you the, uh, I wrote an article about my friend High Parness XE "Parness"  (sp?) . (technical)

[B11650]14:47:56                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

And they wrote, uh, they wrote a show about him, Samalah XE "Samalah" 's Bar Mitzvah (sp?) . He was Samalah. And, uh, what happened was, and I mentioned this in the article, that he got into a, uh, he was very outspoken. He's, he still is. But as a little boy, he was really a tough, tough kid.

[B11650]14:48:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Mm hm.

[B11650]14:48:11                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

And he got into some arguments with Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff" . And Yablokoff didnít brook any of this nonsense. So when, there was a famous playwright, Harry Culminovich XE "Harry Culminovich:See Also:Culminovich"  XE "Harry Culminovich"  (sp?) , who wrote a show called Samalah XE "Samalah" 's Bar Mitzvah, with High Parness XE "Parness"  in mind for the part. So, when he brought it to Yablokoff to produce, Yablokoff says, I donít want High Parness. I can't work with that kid. He's too fresh. Culminovich XE "Culminovich:See Also:Harry Culminovich"  XE "Culminovich"  said, well, then you can't have the show. So Yablokoff had to back down, because apparently the show came with, uh, with High Parness.

[B11650]14:48:47                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

And he, he starred in the show. He had a huge part, because the show was built around him, Samalah XE "Samalah" ís Bar Mitzvah. And, uh, so that was just one aspect. That was probably the highlight of his career.

[B11650]14:48:59                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Did you know the show...

[B11650]14:49:01                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(speaks in yiddish) ?

[B11650]14:49:01                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11650]14:49:02                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

It was Menasha XE "Menasha"  Skulnik XE "Menasha Skulnik:See Also:Skulnik"  XE "Menasha Skulnik"  did the show.

[B11650]14:49:03                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Do you remember that show?

[B11650]14:49:04                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11650]14:49:05                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Vaguely.

[B11650]14:49:05                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(word?) ...

[B11650]14:49:06                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) I may, I may have a program home.

[B11650]14:49:07                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) The conductor was in English XE "English" .

[B11650]14:49:12                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

The conductor?

[B11650]14:49:12                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Oh, really?

[B11650]14:49:13                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) I, I donít know that.

[B11650]14:49:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I donít know why they did that.

[B11650]14:49:15                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

I, I donít know.

[B11650]14:49:16                                                                        INTERVIEWER

It's an all Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  show.

[B11650]14:49:22                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Well, they would sometimes have a medley in the shows. I'm sure Esta XE "Esta"  remembers this. Which, I always thought was delightful.  Uh, I often remember, I remember rather that, uh, uh, Menasha XE "Menasha"  Skulnik XE "Menasha Skulnik:See Also:Skulnik"  XE "Menasha Skulnik"  and Yetta Swerling XE "Yetta Swerling"  were particular adept at this. They would each sing a few bars of an English XE "English"  song, and the other one would answer with another song. So, for example, uh, (singing) (speaks in yiddish) , a bathing suit (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11650]14:49:57                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

Remember, remember. And then, as she, and then, that was her actually. And then Menasha XE "Menasha"  would answer by saying, uh, (singing) (speaks in yiddish) , I remember. (laugh) And it had, like, funny lyrics like that, on, and on, and on. And...

[B11650]14:50:19                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) But they were already using English XE "English"  then.

[B11650]14:50:23                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Was like Yinglish XE "Yinglish" . In the '40s and fifties.

[B11650]14:50:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Well, that they did, I told you, with Jacob and Yetta Zwerling. He started that.

[B11650]14:50:28                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) When you first started, was there any English in the shows?

[B11650]14:50:35                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No.

[B11650]14:50:35                                                                        INTERVIEWER

No.

[B11650]14:50:36                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yiddish .

[B11650]14:50:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Just Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish" .

[B11650]14:50:37                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Then they started to, yeah.

[B11650]14:50:37                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) In fact, Maurice XE "Maurice"  Schwartz XE "Maurice Schwartz:See Also:Schwartz"  XE "Maurice Schwartz"  used the very heavy Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish" , which I didnít understand that well. His, his Yiddish was really...

[B11650]14:50:44                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(speaks in yiddish) Yiddish.

[B11650]14:50:45                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

The real literary...

[B11650]14:50:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11650]14:50:46                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Literary .

[B11650]14:50:45                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... literary Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish" . Not Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue"  Yiddish XE "Avenue Yiddish:See Also:Yiddish"  XE "Avenue Yiddish" .

[B11650]14:50:48                                                                        INTERVIEWER

YIVO they would call it today.

[B11650]14:50:49                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

YIVO .

[B11650]14:50:50                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11650]14:50:54                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) But it's a part. You live and learn, and you learn...

[B11650]14:50:55                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Thatís right.

[B11650]14:50:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... how to do it his way.

[B11650]14:50:56                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) He did the same thing in English.

[B11650]14:50:58                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(unintelligible) ...

[B11650]14:50:58                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Whatever.

[B11650]14:50:58                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Did you make theatre
 your main profession?

[B11650]14:51:05                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

No.

[B11650]14:51:05                                                                        INTERVIEWER

No.

[B11650]14:51:06                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

No.

[B11650]14:51:06                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Not like Esta XE "Esta" .

[B11650]14:51:07                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

I became a teacher. I...

[B11650]14:51:08                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Became...

[B11650]14:51:08                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... well, when, I was the, I worked from about eight until about 16, 17.

[B11650]14:51:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11650]14:51:13                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

And during the last few years in the theatre
, if I had either a small part or no part at all, I became a gofer. They would send me out for things. And, uh, I mean, I, I loved it so much that...

[B11650]14:51:25                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Uh huh.

[B11650]14:51:25                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) I just worked on tips. And I used to get things for people, like, I would...

[B11650]14:51:30                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) But then...

[B11650]14:51:30                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Lebedof XE "Lebedof"  would send me out, and people would, Leo XE "Leo"  Fuchs XE "Leo Fuchs" , they'd send me out, buy me this and this.  You know backstage how it is.

[B11650]14:51:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

But then eventually you grew up.

[B11650]14:51:40                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(interviewer laughs) I grew up. (laugh) I went to high school, (clears throat) I continued there while I was in...

[B11650]14:51:43                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11650]14:51:43                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... high school, because I lived right around the corner.

[B11650]14:51:47                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Downtown XE "Downtown" ?

[B11650]14:51:48                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Downtown XE "Downtown" , right off Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue" ...

[B11650]14:51:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) And then?

[B11650]14:51:49                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... On the Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue" , I was between the three theatre
s. Right...

[B11650]14:51:53                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You know what famous restaurant is on the corner of Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue"  and Second Street XE "Street:See Also:Twelfth Street"  XE "Street:See Also:Seventh Street"  XE "Street:See Also:East Sixth Street"  XE "Street:See Also:East Fourth Street"  XE "Street" ?

[B11650]14:51:59                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes.

[B11650]14:51:59                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Uh, Moscowitz XE "Moscowitz"  And (word?) .

[B11650]14:52:00                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Moscowitz XE "Moscowitz"  And (word?) .

[B11650]14:52:00                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (word?)

[B11650]14:52:01                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Right.

[B11650]14:52:01                                                                        INTERVIEWER

I've never gotten over it.

[B11650]14:52:01                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I ate there all the time.

[B11650]14:52:03                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Moscowitz XE "Moscowitz"  And Lubowicz XE "Lubowicz"  (sp?) .

[B11650]14:52:04                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

They were delicious.

[B11650]14:52:05                                                                        INTERVIEWER

They were the best.

[B11650]14:52:05                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Sure, sure.

[B11650]14:52:06                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) The best.

[B11650]14:52:07                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11650]14:52:06                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) The head, the head waiter's name was, uh, Abromowitz XE "Abromowitz"  (sp?) , and their phone number was Gramowitz XE "Gramowitz"  five 800. (interviewer laughs)

[B11650]14:52:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Grammercy XE "Grammercy" .

[B11650]14:52:13                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Thatís a joke. Gramowitz XE "Gramowitz" . Yes.

[B11650]14:52:13                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) That, that restaurant reminds me of a little story.

[B11650]14:52:16                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) I think it was owned by a man named Louie Anzellowitz XE "Louie Anzellowitz"  (sp?) .

[end of tape: [B11650]14:52:18]


 

TAPE NUMBER: b11651

[B11651]14:23:39                                                                        INTERVIEWER

How old were you when you had your first boyfriend?

[B11651]14:23:42                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Um, 16.

[B11651]14:23:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

For the theatre
, thatís old.

[B11651]14:23:47                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

It was old. I was too busy. I was working. Working, working, working. I didnít call it working. I had to bring mama home money. I didnít call it working. I had to do it.

[B11651]14:23:59                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You supported the family.

[B11651]14:24:00                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

At the time.

[B11651]14:24:01                                                                        INTERVIEWER

A lot of famous children...

[B11651]14:24:03                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yes, yes.

[B11651]14:24:04                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Um...

[B11651]14:24:05                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Just like today. Ha, ha, ha. (interviewer laughs) Whatever.

[B11651]14:24:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Mr. Latner XE "Latner:See Also:Herbert Latner"  XE "Latner" , you started in the theatre
 at a young age.

[B11651]14:24:17                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

By 16 I was nearly retired. I started about eight. And what I did, uh, I got into it accidentally. I had lived on the Lower East Side XE "Lower East Side" , just, uh, half a block away from Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue" , where all the Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  theatre
s were in those days. And, uh, I went to Hebrew XE "Hebrew"  school nearby, and they had a choir, a synagogue choir, where we used to sing for the high holidays. And a number of my friends were, who were in the choir, one of the boys, uh, his last name was Scheckman XE "Scheckman"  (sp?) .

[B11651]14:24:52                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

And I remember he, he said, his brother was something in the Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  theatre
. The director, or an assistant, or something. And they were looking for little boys for a show, would I be interested. I said sure I'd be interested. Does it pay money? He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, it pays. So, um, I went down to the Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue"  theatre
 with him, and this was sort of in the, I guess they used to cast in the summertime for the fall opening. So, we went in there, and they were, uh, auditioning in the lobby.

[B11651]14:25:26                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

They had a great big lobby. It was the Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue"  theatre
 on Second Street XE "Street:See Also:Twelfth Street"  XE "Street:See Also:Seventh Street"  XE "Street:See Also:East Sixth Street"  XE "Street:See Also:East Fourth Street"  XE "Street"  and Second Avenue. And the big boss of that theatre
 was a very imposing, intimidating man, Herman Yablokoff XE "Herman Yablokoff:See Also:Yablokoff"  XE "Herman Yablokoff" . And, uh, they used to call him Yabby XE "Yabby" .

[B11651]14:25:41                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Everybody called him Yabby XE "Yabby" .

[B11651]14:25:42                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) And, we, we didnít, uh, we didnít know who was Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff" , who was any, you know, we were just little kids, and we thought we could make a little money. So I got the job. And the name of the show was (speaks in yiddish) . And it was a very big smash hit. He really, and, and the show had a lot of children. There were, there were two sets of children. I was the youngest. The youngest set were Cub Scouts XE "Cub Scouts:See Also:Scouts"  XE "Cub Scouts" . We were Cub Scouts XE "Scouts:See Also:Cub Scouts"  XE "Scouts" .

[B11651]14:26:10                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

They gave us little blue uniforms, with little caps. And then there were about three or four older boys who were Boy Scouts XE "Scouts:See Also:Cub Scouts"  XE "Scouts" . These were already, you know, 12, 13, 14. I remember, Sanford Rosen XE "Sanford Rosen:See Also:Rose"  XE "Sanford Rosen"  was one of the other, the older boys, and my friend Sammy Milman XE "Sammy Milman"  (sp?)  was one of the little, he was, he was so tiny, I was short for my age, but he was about a head shorter than me. So we got to be friends. It was a bunch of kids, and we were in this show. And they gave us some stuff to learn. Fortunately I had been learning Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  in the Hebrew XE "Hebrew"  school, so I, I knew...

[B11651]14:26:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Mm hm.

[B11651]14:26:45                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  already. Plus it was spoken in my home.

[B11651]14:26:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish"  in Hebrew XE "Hebrew"  school?

[B11651]14:26:51                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Well, it was a Talmud Torah XE "Talmud Torah:See Also:Torah"  XE "Talmud Torah" .

[B11651]14:26:53                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Oh, okay.

[B11651]14:26:53                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

It was the Talmud Torah XE "Talmud Torah:See Also:Torah"  XE "Talmud Torah" . And they taught us Hebrew XE "Hebrew"  in order to read, because eventually we have to know for the bar mitzvah. But the rabbi was a European XE "European"  guy who, who knew Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish" . We had a book called (speaks in yiddish) , The Jew XE "Jew:See Also:Tremendous Jewish"  XE "Jew:See Also:Hillcrest Jewish Center"  XE "Jew" ish XE "Jewish:See Also:Hillcrest Jewish Center"  XE "Jewish:See Also:Tremendous Jewish"  XE "Jewish"  Teacher XE "Jewish Teacher" , and we used to copy, copy...

[B11651]14:27:11                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) For (speaks in yiddish) you need Yiddish XE "Yiddish:See Also:English Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish:See Also:Avenue Yiddish"  XE "Yiddish" .

[B11651]14:27:14                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Yeah.

[B11651]14:27:15                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Which one was it? Not Jacob XE "Jacob:See Also:Thelma Jacobs"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Joe Jacobs"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Irving Jacobson"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Henrietta Jacobson"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Henrietta Jacobsen"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Betty Jacobs"  XE "Jacob"  Joseph XE "Jacob Joseph" .

[B11651]14:27:22                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

No, no. No, my cousin went there.

[B11651]14:27:24                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Yeah.

[B11651]14:27:24                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

It was a very small Talmud Torah XE "Talmud Torah:See Also:Torah"  XE "Talmud Torah" ...

[B11651]14:27:26                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11651]14:27:27                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

The rabbi started out on, uh, East Sixth Street XE "East Sixth Street:See Also:Street"  XE "East Sixth Street" , in a little basement. Then he moved to Seventh Street XE "Seventh Street:See Also:Street"  XE "Seventh Street" . It was Rabbi XE "Rabbi"  Parilli XE "Rabbi Parilli"  (sp?) , was his name.

[B11651]14:27:36                                                                        INTERVIEWER

You mentioned (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11651]14:27:43                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) I'll tell you, (speaks in yiddish) , I'll tell...

[B11651]14:27:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11651]14:27:45                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

...you the songs. Because I remember...

[B11651]14:27:46                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11651]14:27:46                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... the songs.

[B11651]14:27:47                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish)

[B11651]14:27:48                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11651]14:27:49                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Sing XE "Sing"  it.

[B11651]14:27:49                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) (technical)

[B11651]14:27:54                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(sounds like) (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11651]14:27:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11651]14:27:56                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Yeah.

[B11651]14:27:56                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(makes noise) (singing) ...

[B11651]14:27:57                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish)

[B11651]14:28:57                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11651]14:28:02                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

No, no, no, no. It's a different song. No, not (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11651]14:28:05                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No?

[B11651]14:28:06                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) This is (singing) (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11651]14:28:08                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) It's two different...

[B11651]14:28:08                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11651]14:28:11                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) . Yeah.

[B11651]14:28:13                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(singing) (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11651]14:28:13                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (sounds like) (speaks in yiddish) ..

[B11651]14:28:15                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... (makes noise) , (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11651]14:28:20                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Right.

[B11651]14:28:21                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... (speaks in yiddish) Was written by Illia Trilling XE "Illia Trilling:See Also:Trilling"  XE "Illia Trilling"  (sp?) .

[B11651]14:28:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

Thatís right.

[B11651]14:28:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Trilling XE "Trilling:See Also:Illia Trilling"  XE "Trilling" . That's the... (technical)

[B11651]14:28:39                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Different show, different song.

[B11651]14:28:40                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Right.

[B11651]14:28:40                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Is this the show where they go to Hawaii XE "Hawaii" ?

[B11651]14:28:45                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Yes, yes (interviewer laughs) , yes. The Hawaii XE "Hawaii" ...

[B11651]14:28:48                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

I remember (unintelligible) .

[B11651]14:28:48                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) And, I remember it quite vividly...

[B11651]14:28:50                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11651]14:28:51                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(singing) (speaks in yiddish) . And Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff"  sang that himself to this beautiful little girl. And, if I can tell you, the, there's a little story about this little girl, Malka Lobiler XE "Malka Lobiler"  (sp?) . She was a little girl, very talented girl, who was a refugee from the war. Her family were Holocaust XE "Holocaust"  survivors. She came over here, and she was a natural talent. She had a huge party. I mean, our part was just a few pages, and we had a few lines here, little lines there. We were just, you know, incidentals.

[B11651]14:29:33                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

We were in the chorus. But this little girl was really the star of the show. Malka Lobiler XE "Malka Lobiler" . So, she was in the show, and she, she, the audience was just overwhelmed. (speaks in yiddish) They were completely overwhelmed. And what happened is, after a few, and Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff"  was a little concerned about this, because he figured, kids can sometimes get troublesome.  You know, they become primadonnas. And this is what happened.

[B11651]14:29:58                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

And I, I learned this story, actually, not at the time. At the time I didnít know it. But from reading Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff" 's biography, (background noise) I learned the story that happened many years earlier. The father came and said, we want, we want her salary tripled, or we're gonna pull her out. And Yablokoff didnít like to be high handed this way. So what he did, he was very smart. He says, I'll think about it. I'll think about it. In the meantime,  he found another little girl, he coached her, and I think he, he taught this Malka Lobiler XE "Malka Lobiler"  a lesson. Because they had the other, then they split the part up, with the original girl to the second girl who did just as well. So, thatís how he handled her.

[B11651]14:30:39                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Mm hm.

[B11651]14:30:39                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) And was that in the '40s or '30s?

[B11651]14:30:41                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

The '40s.

[B11651]14:30:43                                                                        INTERVIEWER

What is the story with Golda XE "Golda"  Nobecker XE "Golda Nobecker"  (sp?) ?

[B11651]14:30:47                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

There's more I could...

[B11651]14:30:48                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Goes to Hawaii XE "Hawaii" ...

[B11651]14:30:48                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I didnít see it.

[B11651]14:30:50                                                                        INTERVIEWER

And (unintelligible) ...

[B11651]14:30:50                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

Well, I'll tell you (clears throat) a little bit more about the show, because...

[B11651]14:30:52                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11651]14:30:53                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

It had everything (unintelligible) ...

[B11651]14:30:54                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) It was one of those shows.

[B11651]14:30:56                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) It, they...

[B11651]14:30:57                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Always.

[B11651]14:30:57                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... had it all. They had a chorus of female dancers, they had, some of the actors in the show were, uh, Jacob XE "Jacob:See Also:Thelma Jacobs"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Joe Jacobs"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Irving Jacobson"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Henrietta Jacobson"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Henrietta Jacobsen"  XE "Jacob:See Also:Betty Jacobs"  XE "Jacob"  Zanger XE "Jacob Zanger"  (sp?) , I remember. Max XE "Max" ...

[B11651]14:31:05                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11651]14:31:05                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... Rosenblat XE "Rosenblat" . Um, uh, uh, Bella XE "Bella:See Also:Della Bella Botten"  XE "Bella"  Meisel XE "Bella Meisel"  was the leading lady, was, I, I donít know if she was married to him at the time, because I know she was originally married to, uh...

[B11651]14:31:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping)

[B11651]14:31:16                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... Ulchanefsky XE "Ulchanefsky:See Also:Alexander Ulchanefsky"  XE "Ulchanefsky" ...

[B11651]14:31:16                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Ulchanefsky XE "Ulchanefsky:See Also:Alexander Ulchanefsky"  XE "Ulchanefsky" .

[B11651]14:31:17                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

And then subsequently divorced Ulchanefsky XE "Ulchanefsky:See Also:Alexander Ulchanefsky"  XE "Ulchanefsky"  and got married to Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff" .

[B11651]14:31:21                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right. Mm hm.

[B11651]14:31:22                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) But she, but she...

[B11651]14:31:22                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) She divorced Ulchanefsky XE "Ulchanefsky:See Also:Alexander Ulchanefsky"  XE "Ulchanefsky" .

[B11651]14:31:24                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11651]14:31:23                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Ulchanefsky XE "Ulchanefsky:See Also:Alexander Ulchanefsky"  XE "Ulchanefsky" .

[B11651]14:31:24                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I thought it was after he died.

[B11651]14:31:26                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

No.

[B11651]14:31:26                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) No, no. No, no, no, no, no...

[B11651]14:31:27                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) No, no.

[B11651]14:31:27                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... They were still around. Ulchanefsky XE "Ulchanefsky:See Also:Alexander Ulchanefsky"  XE "Ulchanefsky"  was in a different theatre
. They were both very, very busy working. So, um, but Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff"  was essentially the leading man. He was a little mature to be a leading man, but he was okay. And she was the leading lady. And then there was there was a woman who, uh, who, who, who had a thing for him. And, and there was sort of a little, uh, complication in the pot and so on. There was this little girl, Melka Lobiler XE "Melka Lobiler" , who they found this little girl, they wanted to adopt her.

[B11651]14:31:56                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

But she was paralyzed. She couldnít walk. But the paralysis was emotional. I think Bella XE "Bella:See Also:Della Bella Botten"  XE "Bella"  Meiser XE "Bella Meiser"  played the part of a social worker. And he was working with this little girl. So, in the middle of this show, there was a dream, Snow White XE "Snow White"  And The Seven Dwarfs XE "Dwarfs" . They worked that in. So they took us kids, and they made us dwarfs. They dressed us up like the different, you know,  at the time. The country was still, uh, you know, that great movie, the Walt Disney XE "Walt Disney"  movie of Snow White.

[B11651]14:32:22                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

So, we were the seven dwarfs.  Uh, and for, and that was in act two. The kid had a dream, the girl had a dream about the seven dwarfs and everything. And then toward the end of the, and then they went to Hawaii XE "Hawaii" . And he was a baker. And then, he came from Europe XE "Europe" , and he sang a wonderful, every show had to have, uh, a nostalgic song about the (speaks in yiddish) .  You know, like the greatest of those songs was (speaks in yiddish) . But, they didnít have (speaks in yiddish) .

[B11651]14:32:46                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

They had another song that was almost as beautiful. It was called (speaks in yiddish) . Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff"  sang it. Very emotional song, a wonderful, wonderful song. And, uh, toward the end of the show, when, uh, this, and, oh, by the way, this woman who, who had, uh, her eye on Yablokoff, uh, and the little girl didnít like her, and she didnít like her. In the dream, where we were the seven dwarfs, the, this woman, I forgot her name, uh, she, she was the witch.

[B11651]14:33:17                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

She was the witch from Snow White XE "Snow White"  And The Seven Dwarfs XE "Dwarfs" . And when she came to the little girl, and, and, and she was going, she was threatening her, the little girl jumped out of her wheelchair, and waked. And suddenly, that was the big breakthrough. You saw it was psychological and emotional. The girl was able to walk. And when the show ended, the girl walked, uh, Bella XE "Bella:See Also:Della Bella Botten"  XE "Bella"  and Yabby XE "Yabby"  got married, and they lived (laugh) happily ever after.  And it was a beautiful ending.

[B11651]14:33:41                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) The happily ever after I remember.

[B11651]14:33:43                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Yeah, (laugh) yeah. But, but what happened is, as the show...

[B11651]14:33:45                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I donít remember the wheelchair.

[B11651]14:33:48                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Oh, I remember that so, she was in the wheelchair, and...

[B11651]14:33:51                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) (unintelligible)

[B11651]14:33:51                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... and (unintelligible)  is, is approaching her, the witch is approaching her...

[B11651]14:33:53                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11651]14:33:53                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... and everything. And she starts screaming. The little girl was petrified. And she runs to escape her. And suddenly she realized she's walking.  You know, little dramatic...

[B11651]14:34:01                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) I was still wondering why they went to Hawaii XE "Hawaii" .

[B11651]14:34:15                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) He would find a reason.

[B11651]14:34:16                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) There was a Hawaii XE "Hawaii"  number. (speaks in yiddish) And they all had these little leis around...

[B11651]14:34:21                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(overlapping) Yeah.

[B11651]14:34:21                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... their necks. And...

[B11651]14:34:22                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) He knew what the audience loved.

[B11651]14:34:23                                                                        INTERVIEWER

That's what it was.

[B11651]14:34:24                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) And they had very skimpy consumes.

[B11651]14:34:25                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) And he put everything into it, heart and soul. And they loved it. He did fantastic business...

[B11651]14:34:31                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping)

[B11651]14:34:32                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

... I wasnít in that show.

[B11651]14:34:33                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) Oh, he was a great, and he...

[B11651]14:34:34                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) But he, he was so wonderful.

[B11651]14:34:34                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... And he did so well that season that the following season...

[B11651]14:34:37                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Yeah.

[B11651]14:34:37                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

He did two shows.

[B11651]14:34:38                                                                        INTERVIEWER

(speaks in yiddish)

[B11651]14:34:41                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

No, Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff" . (technical)

[B11651]14:34:42                                                     HERBERT LATNER (CONTINUED)

Yablokoff XE "Yablokoff:See Also:Herman Yablokoff"  XE "Yablokoff"  was so successful, and a lot of people said he's overreaching himself. The next season he took a public theatre
, and, uh...

[B11651]14:34:50                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue" .

[B11651]14:34:50                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

... and, uh, Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue" . He had two theatre
s.

[B11651]14:34:52                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

Right.

[B11651]14:34:53                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

One show was called (speaks in yiddish) ...

[B11651]14:34:55                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

That was in the public theatre
.

[B11651]14:34:56                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping) My wife flower. You remember that? In public theatre
.

[B11651]14:34:57                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) Public theatre
.

[B11651]14:34:58                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

And they had a...

[B11651]14:34:58                                                                    ESTA SALTZMAN
 

(overlapping) I worked in the Second Avenue XE "Avenue:See Also:Lenox Avenue"  XE "Avenue"  theatre
.

[B11651]14:35:00                                                                   HERBERT LATNER
 

(overlapping)